Full Blown Turbo Kit Owners Topic

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by WiebTech Performance

Its about a 1000 mile round trip for me, but if I had a decent base tune to get me down there, I'd definitely be for it.

For a proper Dyno tune its worth it. Just don't get into boost on the way.. (I know its going to be hard..) but it will be well worth it.

[mike the snake]

I think FLI will give me a tune that doesn't blow up, but this is their first 86, so I don't know exactly what I'm going to get. I've been told Tuesday or Wednesday it should be done.

I know that with the Hydra, full 3" catless exhaust, GTX28R turbo, 550cc injectors and DW65 fuel pump I should be able to get well above 300whp with the methanol injection.

I believe they are going to simply tune with the 7lb wastegate spring. I know they haven't installed a boost controller (which I think I want) and they installed a wideband sensor at my request.

Element Tuning has offered to help with tuning with the Hydra when or if the time comes.

I plan to get the car all ready, with everything I need installed, to get the power I've been shooting for, either with FLI or another tuner.

This whole thing, with problems, parts swaps, delays, has taken 2.5 months and will probably be North of $17 grand. I will not be happy with 280whp that's for sure!

I still have the crash bar to install, fix the squished intercooler pipe, fab up the ducting for the radiator and oil cooler, gauges to install, still have a ways to go.

I'm in too deep to pull the plug now, but if I'd known it would be over 6 months (waiting on parts mostly) and this much money, I probably would have made a different decision.

I hope it's worth it!

[whitefrs]

Originally Posted by mike the snake

I think FLI will give me a tune that doesn't blow up, but this is their first 86, so I don't know exactly what I'm going to get. I've been told Tuesday or Wednesday it should be done.

I know that with the Hydra, full 3" catless exhaust, GTX28R turbo, 550cc injectors and DW65 fuel pump I should be able to get well above 300whp with the methanol injection.

I believe they are going to simply tune with the 7lb wastegate spring. I know they haven't installed a boost controller (which I think I want) and they installed a wideband sensor at my request.

Element Tuning has offered to help with tuning with the Hydra when or if the time comes.

I plan to get the car all ready, with everything I need installed, to get the power I've been shooting for, either with FLI or another tuner.

This whole thing, with problems, parts swaps, delays, has taken 2.5 months and will probably be North of $17 grand. I will not be happy with 280whp that's for sure!

I still have the crash bar to install, fix the squished intercooler pipe, fab up the ducting for the radiator and oil cooler, gauges to install, still have a ways to go.

I'm in too deep to pull the plug now, but if I'd known it would be over 6 months (waiting on parts mostly) and this much money, I probably would have made a different decision.

I hope it's worth it!

How about LJ.

He can tune it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mike the snake]

I don't know anything about tuning. I know the Hydra is a standalone, and very different than Ecutek, so I don't know if someone who isn't familiar with Hydra can just hop in and tune.

Element Tuning has offered to fly in and help tune if necessary. Everyone wants my car to make good numbers. I think the Hydra is far superior to Ekutek, it's going to come down to the tune/tuner.

I've been promised I won't be left hanging.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by mike the snake

I don't know anything about tuning. I know the Hydra is a standalone, and very different than Ecutek, so I don't know if someone who isn't familiar with Hydra can just hop in and tune.

Element Tuning has offered to fly in and help tune if necessary. Everyone wants my car to make good numbers. I think the Hydra is far superior to Ekutek, it's going to come down to the tune/tuner.

I've been promised I won't be left hanging.

Yeah it's really not, unless you're swapping motors. If you're going standalone, motec is where it's at, but even then to come close to the functionality of custom maps you'd need a $5500 build ecu/license and a computer science degree.

Fast logging and live tuning are nice, though.

[DeliciousTuning]

Originally Posted by WiebTech Performance

Its about a 1000 mile round trip for me, but if I had a decent base tune to get me down there, I'd definitely be for it.

Check out Mann Engineering in San Jose. Delicious Tuning travels up there on a fairly regular basis for custom dyno tuning on their state of the art Maha dyno and pressurized cell. Next trip is the end of February.

Cheers,
William Knose

[RickyB]

Originally Posted by jamesm

Yeah it's really not, unless you're swapping motors. If you're going standalone, motec is where it's at, but even then to come close to the functionality of custom maps you'd need a $5500 build ecu/license and a computer science degree.

What functionality is missing from the Hydra or standard Motec setup that requires an extra $5500 license and CS degree to run the FA20?

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by RickyB

What functionality is missing from the Hydra or standard Motec setup that requires an extra $5500 license and CS degree to run the FA20?

the ability to program custom control logic... i.e. new routines not yet imagined by the original developers... similar to custom maps in racerom only even more powerful since you can use literally any inputs and modify any outputs, and do your own calculations directly.

an example is differential wheel speed traction control. with ecutek you'd make a few separate custom maps, two each comparing wheel speed front and rear (front left vs front right, rear left vs rear right) and pick the highest, then another map to compare the output of each of those (so comparing highest front with highest rear), then use the output from that in another map to make whatever torque control adjustments you'd like to accomplish traction control. it works, but it takes up a lot of valuable custom map real estate and isn't very straightforward.

to use this with motec requires a special ecu (build ecu) and licensing, which isn't geared toward the end user and is more or less for shops to implement custom features for their customers. all of the comparison logic would just be written into the routine in whatever language they implement those things in using their api. so it's much harder (i.e. requires significant programming knowledge) but ultimately cleaner and more powerful (the routines run much faster than custom maps do).

i'm not aware that the hydra offers anything like this at all.

[The Racers Line]

Originally Posted by DeliciousTuning

Check out Mann Engineering in San Jose. Delicious Tuning travels up there on a fairly regular basis for custom dyno tuning on their state of the art Maha dyno and pressurized cell. Next trip is the end of February.

Cheers,
William Knose

Very cool! I appreciate the info

[RickyB]

Originally Posted by jamesm

the ability to program custom control logic... i.e. new routines not yet imagined by the original developers... similar to custom maps in racerom only even more powerful since you can use literally any inputs and modify any outputs, and do your own calculations directly.

an example is differential wheel speed traction control. with ecutek you'd make a few separate custom maps, two each comparing wheel speed front and rear (front left vs front right, rear left vs rear right) and pick the highest, then another map to compare the output of each of those (so comparing highest front with highest rear), then use the output from that in another map to make whatever torque control adjustments you'd like to accomplish traction control. it works, but it takes up a lot of valuable custom map real estate and isn't very straightforward.

to use this with motec requires a special ecu (build ecu) and licensing, which isn't geared toward the end user and is more or less for shops to implement custom features for their customers. all of the comparison logic would just be written into the routine in whatever language they implement those things in using their api. so it's much harder (i.e. requires significant programming knowledge) but ultimately cleaner and more powerful (the routines run much faster than custom maps do).

i'm not aware that the hydra offers anything like this at all.

Cool, but why do you need this capability to control the FA20? What is missing from the current map sets provided by the Hydra and basic Motec that will prevent you from running the engine properly?

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by RickyB

Cool, but why do you need this capability to control the FA20? What is missing from the current map sets provided by the Hydra and basic Motec that will prevent you from running the engine properly?

I use custom maps and logic for everything from properly controlling di/port fuel quantity to traction control, boost by gear, etc.

Really it's not about 'what problem can this not solve'. It's about the ability to solve problems you don't know you have yet.

[RickyB]

Originally Posted by jamesm

I use custom maps and logic for everything from properly controlling di/port fuel quantity to traction control, boost by gear, etc.

Really it's not about 'what problem can this not solve'. It's about the ability to solve problems you don't know you have yet.

I would argue that the folks who developed these systems have already thought about the most effective way to handle the problems that street and race cars will run into and incorporated those features into the standard mapset.

I have taught tuning classes and have personally met very few tuners that have the skillset or background to define and use a feature as advanced as custom maps. For example, the Hydra lets you build very complex, advanced expressions to control the outputs (about a step below the level of difficulty of custom maps) and yet I know of only a couple tuners that have ever managed to build a new, useful output function without my help even though everything is fully documented in the help panels.

You do have a point, though, if you ever think you will need custom map programming features, you may have to pay a lot to get these in stand alone systems.

[King Tut]

Most of the custom maps @jamesm is refrencing are to get around limitations of the Subaru BRZ ECU logic or to add features to the ECU that it was not intended to do such as FlexFuel, boost control, and wideband O2 readings. I would expect Hydra to be able to do all those things very easily.

[DeliciousTuning]

Originally Posted by RickyB

Cool, but why do you need this capability to control the FA20? What is missing from the current map sets provided by the Hydra and basic Motec that will prevent you from running the engine properly?

We are using the EcuTeK with custom features on the forced induction vehicles to resolve small problems that can not be resolved within the OEM functionality. Some of those items include boost control (with added safety margins), fueling control and knock control between shifts.

With a Hydra or Motec you would not have these problems and should be able to create whatever maps you need to tune the vehicle.

Cheers,
William Knose