How much would a new Supra cost ?

[zigzagz94]

Originally Posted by Dixie Normous

Has everyone forgot about the IS-F? or does it have to many doors to be cool?

No but it does ONLY come with an 8 speed automatic transmission which makes it very uncool to some of us. And I don't care if that tranny can shift .5 sec faster than I can it's still not as fun as a traditional 6 speed manual.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

No but it does ONLY come with an 8 speed automatic transmission which makes it very uncool to some of us. And I don't care if that tranny can shift .5 sec faster than I can it's still not as fun as a traditional 6 speed manual.

Have you driven one yet?

[Midship Runabout]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

No but it does ONLY come with an 8 speed automatic transmission which makes it very uncool to some of us. And I don't care if that tranny can shift .5 sec faster than I can it's still not as fun as a traditional 6 speed manual.

I guess a GTR is uncool as well right?

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Franisco

Why is that?

A lot of reason, but I'll just list 2

1. Power
Power difference you can get out of V engine and boxer engine is ridiculous. For an example I'll use new Legacy 3.6R, which has 3.6L H6 engine. That engine name is EZ36D 3629CC DOHC, 260ps (256 hp) @6000rpm, 335Nm (247lbf-ft) @4400rpm. Top of my head, Toyota v6 engine that comes to mind is v6 engine from GS350, iirc it was 2GR-FE (correct me if I'm wrong), it's pressing 303hp w 289lbf-ft. 0.1 litter smaller and it's pressing 47hp & 42lbf-ft difference... but of course this EZ36D engine is just a bored out EZ30R, so technically it's 3L block was bore to the limit.

2. Modification
I have seen some shop swap the STI engine out and put EZ30R engine and put big turbo to press over 800hp... but we're talkin' bout over $20k of work and lasting the engine for few yrs and blow up. While v engine you spent half of that and make much or more hp and last longer.

Those are the simple reasons why

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

I think you missed my point. I was talking about building a V6 around the same ideology of their V10 (Lightweight, bulletproof, compact, free revving), while of course having direct injection/ignition, valvematic & maybe even stop-start technology as well. Heck, while they are at it, I'd hope they would feel free to make it able to accept turbos in certain applications, maybe even throw on some of those variable geometry turbos they've been working on for the last couple of years (feel free to leave off the electric spool).

Ah~ gotcha.

[Franisco]

[QUOTE=ichitaka05;14916]A lot of reason, but I'll just list 2

1. Power
Power difference you can get out of V engine and boxer engine is ridiculous. For an example I'll use new Legacy 3.6R, which has 3.6L H6 engine. That engine name is EZ36D 3629CC DOHC, 260ps (256 hp) @6000rpm, 335Nm (247lbf-ft) @4400rpm. Top of my head, Toyota v6 engine that comes to mind is v6 engine from GS350, iirc it was 2GR-FE (correct me if I'm wrong), it's pressing 303hp w 289lbf-ft. 0.1 litter smaller and it's pressing 47hp & 42lbf-ft difference... but of course this EZ36D engine is just a bored out EZ30R, so technically it's 3L block was bore to the limit.

2. Modification
I have seen some shop swap the STI engine out and put EZ30R engine and put big turbo to press over 800hp... but we're talkin' bout over $20k of work and lasting the engine for few yrs and blow up. While v engine you spent half of that and make much or more hp and last longer.

Those are the simple reasons why
/QUOTE]

So are you saying they arent strong and cant make power because they are flat though? Or does it just happen that the ones they currently make don't output big numbers? I always thought the flat engines were smoother

[[es vi: eks]]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

A lot of reason, but I'll just list 2

1. Power
Power difference you can get out of V engine and boxer engine is ridiculous. For an example I'll use new Legacy 3.6R, which has 3.6L H6 engine. That engine name is EZ36D 3629CC DOHC, 260ps (256 hp) @6000rpm, 335Nm (247lbf-ft) @4400rpm. Top of my head, Toyota v6 engine that comes to mind is v6 engine from GS350, iirc it was 2GR-FE (correct me if I'm wrong), it's pressing 303hp w 289lbf-ft. 0.1 litter smaller and it's pressing 47hp & 42lbf-ft difference... but of course this EZ36D engine is just a bored out EZ30R, so technically it's 3L block was bore to the limit.


Ah~ gotcha.

Is the EZ36 really bored? I know its quite different to the EZ30D in almost every way... to the point you cant use any parts of the 30 on a 36 or vice verser.

What I thought they did was they left the bore the same put went with flexible conrods to get the extra .6L

One reason it is lower on power is due to being made to run on low grade crap gas, not perium

[[es vi: eks]]

Originally Posted by Franisco

So are you saying they arent strong and cant make power because they are flat though? Or does it just happen that the ones they currently make don't output big numbers? I always thought the flat engines were smoother

The boxer lay out can be very strong.
Like in the above quote I said the 3.6 has flexible con rods and they are made to run on the crap gas.
Subaru wanted to increase the tourqe and power on the 3L with out increasing its size to much. So they went with flexible conrod to help.
The flexible conrods wouldnt handle any FI.

Sadly Subaru never has done a factory turbo 6.. If they had done that, it would had been alot cheaper to play with mod etc.

The boxer motor is smooth. Even really ancient flat twins from 1910 where natually smooth. You could stand a old coin up on its edge and it would stay on top of the running motor with out falling off.
I was walking past the local Subaru dealership a few years ago and they had the bonnets up on a few legacys... I stopped and looked. I didnt even realise they where running.
I put my hand on the motor and didnt feel any vibration. I only realised they were running when I looked at the spinning pulleys.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Franisco

So are you saying they arent strong and cant make power because they are flat though? Or does it just happen that the ones they currently make don't output big numbers? I always thought the flat engines were smoother

I doubt he's saying that because Porsche, RUF and Gemballa would have a lot to talk to him about.

I do side with him in that I'd prefer a V though.

[zigzagz94]

Originally Posted by Dixie Normous

I guess a GTR is uncool as well right?

IS-F has a traditional tourque converter equipped automatic whereas the GT-R has a Dual clutch manual transmission which is very different than the IS-F... but to answer your question

TO ME YES, and I'm not the only one. Many articles state that the car is souless almost to a point where all of the computers are driving you instead of the other way around.

Despite it's unquestionable supercar performance levels, in the fantasy world where I could afford one, I would never consider buying one because of the dual clutch transmission. If they offered a traditional 6 speed manual then I would be all over it. I have driven many cars with automatics and DCT's and I just don't like them.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Franisco

So are you saying they arent strong and cant make power because they are flat though? Or does it just happen that the ones they currently make don't output big numbers? I always thought the flat engines were smoother

I never said, they're not smooth. I just stated that, v engine is better option, in my opinion... but if Toyota join work w Porsche to do H6 engine, now that's different story.

Originally Posted by [es vi: eks]

Is the EZ36 really bored? I know its quite different to the EZ30D in almost every way... to the point you cant use any parts of the 30 on a 36 or vice verser.

What I thought they did was they left the bore the same put went with flexible conrods to get the extra .6L

One reason it is lower on power is due to being made to run on low grade crap gas, not perium

Yes, it's true that they have flexible conrods to get extra Liter out of it, but also they have bore it out too (89.2mm to 92mm) also due to the flexible conrods they increase the stroke by 11mm (80mm to 91mm). iirc they change the compression to 10.5:1 instead of 10.7:1. Because of those things, EZ36D's low end tq is mucho... but don't forget, because of that high end is POS. When you're reving high up, it shake the whole car like old washing machine and don't have any tq or hp to do anything.

If you have chance to test drive current Legacy 3.6R or Tribeca check it out, I can guarantee Legacy GT is smoother.

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

I doubt he's saying that because Porsche, RUF and Gemballa would have a lot to talk to him about.

I do side with him in that I'd prefer a V though.

LOL Matador, I'm a Boxer Engine Lover. If I can, I'll take boxer engine over any engine... but sadly, 6 cylinders spec and performance battle, Toyota win over Subaru... but it might of been different result for Porsche, RUF and Gemballa H6 vs Toyota v6 battle. lol

[Midship Runabout]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

IS-F has a traditional tourque converter equipped automatic whereas the GT-R has a Dual clutch manual transmission which is very different than the IS-F... but to answer your question

TO ME YES, and I'm not the only one. Many articles state that the car is souless almost to a point where all of the computers are driving you instead of the other way around.

Despite it's unquestionable supercar performance levels, in the fantasy world where I could afford one, I would never consider buying one because of the dual clutch transmission. If they offered a traditional 6 speed manual then I would be all over it. I have driven many cars with automatics and DCT's and I just don't like them.

Blitz has a manual 6-speed R35
I will agree with you. I would prefer 3 peddles but technology is technology. And its growing everyday.



What do you guys mean by flexible connecting rods? (im to lazy to search)

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

IS-F has a traditional tourque converter equipped automatic whereas the GT-R has a Dual clutch manual transmission which is very different than the IS-F... but to answer your question

TO ME YES, and I'm not the only one. Many articles state that the car is souless almost to a point where all of the computers are driving you instead of the other way around.

Despite it's unquestionable supercar performance levels, in the fantasy world where I could afford one, I would never consider buying one because of the dual clutch transmission. If they offered a traditional 6 speed manual then I would be all over it. I have driven many cars with automatics and DCT's and I just don't like them.

But you know that BMW, Ferrari, Mercedes-Benz AMG, Porsche, & other well known companies use DCT.

[NESW20]

power production has zero, nada, nothing, zilch, to do with cylinder layout. NOTHING.

head, intake, and exhaust design make power.


UGH.

-Mike

[Lexicon101]

Originally Posted by NESW20

power production has zero, nada, nothing, zilch, to do with cylinder layout. NOTHING.

head, intake, and exhaust design make power.


UGH.

-Mike

Know what else makes power?
MY STEREO!