OFT vs. Ecutek

[Malt]

Originally Posted by jamesm

because eventually you'll run into it, and it can happen a lot sooner than you think depending on what setup you use (i.e. JR sc).

i don't argue most people will care, but for the 10% that do, it does matter. anyone looking to make more than 350whp will need sd with a 3" maf, at least every car i've tuned to that level has. the alternative is to go bigger than 3" and use a reducer to the throttle body. not exactly an elegant solution.

if you want to assert superiority based on your tuning suite, well that's just pathetic, but you wouldn't use that argument. you'd just say 'custom maps' and the argument would be over.

and how 'antiquated' is an evo x? they use hybrid setups stock.

i'm a huge fan of OFT. i think it's the best option for 90% of us. but to pretend there aren't drawbacks for the other 10% is disingenuous.

I don't mean to imply that ecutek isn't a great product, just that the feature set isn't needed for the vast majority of us (which you conceed) yet it's those very features that continue to be used as a selling point for those that don't need it. (aka selling an air conditioner to home owners that live in northern Canada) Sure it might be cool but is it needed?

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Malt

I don't mean to imply that ecutek isn't a great product, just that the feature set isn't needed for the vast majority of us (which you conceed) yet it's those very features that continue to be used as a selling point for those that don't need it. (aka selling an air conditioner to home owners that live in northern Canada) Sure it might be cool but is it needed?

For someone running an NA car, no they don't. For someone with a turbo car, yes they do. For anyone looking to do their own tuning, it can be massively beneficial in terms of time and effort saved.

Nothing is universal, and different products suit different use cases. We're lucky to have multiple options to argue about .

[TylerLieberman]

Odors the OFT tune get rid of the horrible stock rev limiter cutting? I use my car for drifting and it would be nice to be able to hit rev limiter if needed without having the car completely bog down for like 5 seconds and kill the drift.

If it does, I'm buying this

[Malt]

Originally Posted by jamesm

For someone running an NA car, no they don't. For someone with a turbo car, yes they do. For anyone looking to do their own tuning, it can be massively beneficial in terms of time and effort saved.

Nothing is universal, and different products suit different use cases. We're lucky to have multiple options to argue about .

We are indeed lucky to have multiple options. I am however confused by this latest statement. You said that the stock intake works to 350 hp then there would be a need to either swap to SD OR install a larger MAF tube. Yet, again you state that running boost means you need SD (or ecutek, not completely sure). Obviously there are no 350 hp NA FA20's atm (if ever) so I can only assume you mean going to a FI setup. Its obvious that ecutek is further along in development than the available open source solutions since they have been in development longer. However it seems to me that sticking with a MAF is indeed an option given the fact that installing a larger MAF tube will allow you to continue tuning for the increased power.

All this double talk is starting to look like a political debate. Either MAF can be tuned for high HP cars or it can't. Obviously it can as Shiv has at least two boosted vehicles tuned so it would be nice if people stuck with the (several) merits of ecutek instead of making up reasons why OFT won't work for them.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

Odors the OFT tune get rid of the horrible stock rev limiter cutting? I use my car for drifting and it would be nice to be able to hit rev limiter if needed without having the car completely bog down for like 5 seconds and kill the drift.

If it does, I'm buying this

A couple of map releases ago shiv introduced a soft rev limiter so you can indeed hold it at redline if wanted.

[CajunFRS]

Originally Posted by jamesm

For someone running an NA car, no they don't. For someone with a turbo car, yes they do. For anyone looking to do their own tuning, it can be massively beneficial in terms of time and effort saved.

Nothing is universal, and different products suit different use cases. We're lucky to have multiple options to argue about .

Does JRSC carb legal tune use MAF or SD? I just assumed you would know lol.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by CajunFRS

Does JRSC carb legal tune use MAF or SD? I just assumed you would know lol.

i'm guessing it must be hybrid. based on what i've heard from a friend that's tuning one, they run out of maf on pump with the stock pulley. i also thought the maf pipe looked a bit small...

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Malt

We are indeed lucky to have multiple options. I am however confused by this latest statement. You said that the stock intake works to 350 hp then there would be a need to either swap to SD OR install a larger MAF tube. Yet, again you state that running boost means you need SD (or ecutek, not completely sure). Obviously there are no 350 hp NA FA20's atm (if ever) so I can only assume you mean going to a FI setup. Its obvious that ecutek is further along in development than the available open source solutions since they have been in development longer. However it seems to me that sticking with a MAF is indeed an option given the fact that installing a larger MAF tube will allow you to continue tuning for the increased power.

All this double talk is starting to look like a political debate. Either MAF can be tuned for high HP cars or it can't. Obviously it can as Shiv has at least two boosted vehicles tuned so it would be nice if people stuck with the (several) merits of ecutek instead of making up reasons why OFT won't work for them.

maf can be tuned for any car. you can always install a larger maf tube (and use load hacks if necessary, eventually) to get around limitations. with a 3" maf (as included in most turbo kits), you'll hit 4.85v around low 300's-350whp depending on hardware. this will trigger your cel, then you can just disable it and run to 5v if you're ballsy.

the main issue is that once you go bigger than 3", you'll need to use a reducer to fit the pipe to the throttle body. not a deal-breaker, but it's not an elegant solution either.

so yes, it can be done up to a point. i did it myself, tuned my turbo car on e85 right to the limit of the maf. would i do it again? no. because i don't have to. hacks are there to solve problems you can't solve directly, and i just solve it directly.

i'm not in this business, and could care less what anyone else chooses to use. i have no allegiance, and recommend oft more often than ecutek to locals (as it suits more of them). i am however one of the only people on here who have actually done this stuff to multiple cars with multiple configurations using multiple software packages, and can make statements based on experience rather than something some tuner on the forum told them trying to sell them something. it really bites my ass that i had to buy 3 different tuning packages to get where i need because they all 'could do what i want' until i found out they couldn't. there are limitations, especially for people wanting to go turbo (boost cut alone is a dealbreaker), and they need to be acknowledged so people don't throw good money after bad like i did.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by Malt

A couple of map releases ago shiv introduced a soft rev limiter so you can indeed hold it at redline if wanted.

Awesome.

If shiv can confirm this personally, I'm on board.

This is much better than spending $1,000+ on tuning.

I'm just looking into a simple stage 1 tune with a filter and no retarded rev limiter.

[Xero-Limit]

Idle becomes a big issue with a 3.5 or bigger MAF. Even with straighteners, the air velocity is incredibly slow at idle speeds once you get above a 3" pipe on a 2l motor. The hybrid MAF/SD setup allows for OEM smooth operation at low loads/part throttle, while having no pipe limitation up top. Also the calibration curve on the BRZ is awful. There are not many data points and the jumps are huge once you go past 2.5v. We use MAF for the innovate kit where hp is generally lower and super consistent, for vortech and turbo kits it is much more reliable, in our experience, to go with a hybrid setup. The built in corrections work very well in that temps and elevation changes are compensated properly.

We use a custom map is used to run MAP vs RPM for ignition timing, that works with stock advance tables and temp compensation. This is much more reliable than using the g/s load calculation that in this ECU, and not designed for FI. For fuel we add a custom map for boost vs fuel compensation. This allows for much more precise control in variable boost setups like the vortech/kraftwerks/jr--you can specify different coefficients for fuel at different cells.

While you can run without a failsafe for boost, what we often see cause issues is this scenario: take your air-air intercooled car out in the warmer months, get it tuned, it makes a nice 10 psi. Take same car out in the frigid weather, and now it creeps up to 14 psi, even more when the engine is cold too. Wastegates have their limitations in the cold when everything is super efficient. That same MAP based fueling and timing map now pulls back timing, and adds fuel. What happens in load based calculations? They just apply the last cell. Which means you'd be running lean and way over advanced. Yes, the odds of a hose popping off are small, but the odds of getting out in the cold, or dropping from 5000 feet to sea level are much higher.

Again, this is our experience and no doubt there are workarounds for a lot of this (as we use on other platforms without SD) but when it is there hybrid SD is a godsend for tuning.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by moto-mike

While you can run without a failsafe for boost, what we often see cause issues is this scenario: take your air-air intercooled car out in the warmer months, get it tuned, it makes a nice 10 psi. Take same car out in the frigid weather, and now it creeps up to 14 psi, even more when the engine is cold too. Wastegates have their limitations in the cold when everything is super efficient. That same MAP based fueling and timing map now pulls back timing, and adds fuel. What happens in load based calculations? They just apply the last cell. Which means you'd be running lean and way over advanced. Yes, the odds of a hose popping off are small, but the odds of getting out in the cold, or dropping from 5000 feet to sea level are much higher.

How does oem turbo cars do it?

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

Awesome.

If shiv can confirm this personally, I'm on board.

This is much better than spending $1,000+ on tuning.

I'm just looking into a simple stage 1 tune with a filter and no retarded rev limiter.

Confirmed. Malt speaks the truth. Soft rev limiter was put in place a couple months ago

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Confirmed. Malt speaks the truth. Soft rev limiter was put in place a couple months ago

So if I buy an OFT now, the tunes on the device have this feature already correct?

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by CajunFRS

Does JRSC carb legal tune use MAF or SD? I just assumed you would know lol.

According to JR, it uses MAF, not SD hybrid. Same with Vortech and AVO.