All season tires

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by mwjcyber

Let me explain the rationale for all-season tires.


Live in southern states (CA, AZ, TX, FL, etc), you should be driving sticky Summer tires year round.

Live in northern places (MN, New England, Canada), you should have a set of Winter tires and Summer tires

Live in places in between, not enough snow for Winter tires, to cold to drive Summer tires in the winter. Most people in this climate zone, myself included (Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3), run All-Season tires year round...understanding the slight sacrifice of summer handling for year round driveability.

Discussion aside, you should read up on the new Michelin all season tires. They are revolutionary, out perform most other brands summer tires, have decent snow traction, and nearly eliminate the all-season sacrifice you have so deeply ingrained.

I'll agree with most of this, but personally I'd still rather have dedicated pure summers and then something different for the winter even if there isn't any real snow accumulation on the roads. That could be because I've lived my whole life in a climate where everyone should have snow tires in the winter.

The way I see it, you're really not spending much more money this way in the long run because tires will last you twice as long if you only drive them half as much. The only increased cost is the second set of wheels, and if you spread the cost of some steelies out over 5 years it's peanuts.

As for the new Michelins... they might be fine in those middle climates that are colder but no real snow accumulation, but they're useless up here in the snow. We've had well over a foot of snow this month, and there are lots of roads that have snow on them even days after a snowfall.

[Suberman]

Of course, wparsons doesn't drive in a true winter climate. However, he goes think its safe to use ultra high performance summer tires in Canada in November....I'd not follow his example, or his advice for that matter, if you're ever driving up here in November. Still, all the rent a car agencies rent ski cars with all season tires up here, and not Pilot A/S either!

Out here three season tires are snow tires, so decent all season performance tires are the way to go.

Only June, July and August are reliably warm enough to benefit from ultra high performance summer tires.

Michelin understands this.

Of course, poseurs on their expensive ultra high performance tires never get them hot enough to deliver the grip they paid for.....then they think these tires are "just as good" in colder temperatures, which they are if you never get them hot when it is properly warm out. Only they are actually just as bad when cold no matter what temperature the road is at.

Anybody who has not heated up his or her ultra high performance tires is wasting his or her money and is unaware of that.

Most summer driving is done with the tires only at moderate temperature and the new Michelin A/S will outperform the dedicated summer tire by a wide margin if the two types of tire are not very hot.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Of course, wparsons doesn't drive in a true winter climate. However, he goes think its safe to use ultra high performance summer tires in Canada in November....I'd not follow his example, or his advice for that matter, if you're ever driving up here in November.

Get a clue, it's still +15 for most of November in Toronto. I don't baby my car, and as soon as the pavement is too cold my snows are on. My summers are still plenty grippy at 5*C, but they're not on the car when it's that cold.

Originally Posted by Suberman

Of course, poseurs on their expensive ultra high performance tires never get them hot enough to deliver the grip they paid for.....then they think these tires are "just as good" in colder temperatures, which they are if you never get them hot when it is properly warm out. Only they are actually just as bad when cold no matter what temperature the road is at.

Anybody who has not heated up his or her ultra high performance tires is wasting his or her money and is unaware of that.

Most summer driving is done with the tires only at moderate temperature and the new Michelin A/S will outperform the dedicated summer tire by a wide margin if the two types of tire are not very hot.

I love that you go off on how amazing new all seasons are in all conditions, yet fail to recognize just how good modern ultra high performance summers are in a wide range of temperatures. They aren't 15 year old R compounds that need to be heated way up to give any grip. Do they have better grip when hot, yes, but are they better cold than other tires at the same temperature, also yes.

You might be shocked to know that warming up tires in any way is strictly banned for autoslalom events, yet tires like ZII's, RS3's, etc are all the fastest there, even on cold days. Someone should really tell them they would be faster running an all season tire.

Have you actually look at how much the new breed of super grippy tires cost? ZII's and RS3's are like $150/tire on tirerack for 225/45/17's, compare that to the prices of other tires and they're a bargain.

Call me a poseur all you want, but how many lapping days, autoslalom, time attack or HPDE schools have you done on yours? I bought tires that work well for my usage, which is street driving, open lapping, autoslalom, HDPE and maybe eventually time attack events.

You're the one in Calgary driving on poorly sized performance snows complaining about a lack of grip, who's the real poseur?

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by wparsons

You're the one in Calgary driving on poorly sized performance snows complaining about a lack of grip, who's the real poseur?

You still need to look up that quote: hint, it's from Shakespeare.

Funny you think I've called you a poseur....shoe fits does it?

[zooki]

Not meaning to jump into y'all's Internet pissing match, but here's the correct quote:
"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

And it's from Macbeth, not Hamlet
Macbeth, Act 5 Scene 5

No need to thank me, carry on.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Suberman

You still need to look up that quote: hint, it's from Shakespeare.

Funny you think I've called you a poseur....shoe fits does it?

Don't dance around, answer the question. When you're done, put your glass slipper back on.

How many times have you driven your BRZ in an autoslalom, lapping, time attack or HDPE setting? You're so full of information on why they handle so poorly in those situations you MUST have tons of experience.

[Suberman]

Black Knight.

(Hint: NOT Shakespeare)

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Black Knight.

(Hint: NOT Shakespeare)

More dancing around actually answering questions.

Hint: I don't care about your silly quotes, it just further proves you have no real track experience and are just doing what lawyers do best -> regurgitate things you've read, not always in the proper context.

[Gearhd79]

Ok I've read this thread which I think has gone way off track and I'm still trying to get a comparison between different all season tires. I do not drive this car every day but I would like to drive it during the winter months so I am looking for a decent all season tire that will still work well if I am on the highway and get stuck driving in a wintery mix. I have an SUV if I need to drive in some real snow. I have Dunlop Z2's for summer/performance driving. I am thinking of getting Bridgestone Potenza RE970AS pole positions. I have heard that dedicated winter tires ride like garbage in anything but snow. What you guys think?

[wparsons]

My snows don't ride like garbage at all. They're not nearly as communicative as my ZII's, but they're not really much worse than the stock tires were on dry pavement.

I don't know how often you get snow accumulating on the roads, but if you'll only be taking the FRS out when the roads are clear then you'll be fine with all seasons or performance snows. If you'll be driving through a couple inches of snow regularly, I'd get studless ice and snow tires.

[Gearhd79]

I am mainly just comparing different brands of all seasons
I was just explaining why I am buying all seasons plus I had to leave the car at a friends for a couple of days just because of a couple of inches of snow with the OEM primacys

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by Gearhd79

I am mainly just comparing different brands of all seasons
I was just explaining why I am buying all seasons plus I had to leave the car at a friends for a couple of days just because of a couple of inches of snow with the OEM primacys

Yes, some think this thread is about snow tires versus all seasons.

Summer tires don't work on snow or ice. All season tires do work on ice and snow, some better than others. All season tires aren't as good as snow tires on snow or ice but the best all seasons are way better than snow tires on bare roads.

Where I am, I'm switching from summer tires to all seasons for summer use. I still have winter tires for winter. Where I am winter conditions can occur any time and only June, July and August are fairly reliable. I may drive in the mountains where it can snow hard at any time.

All season tires are now so good you can rely on them as all weather tires. So, where I sm all season tires now beat summer tires for 6 months of the year and my snow tires will be needed only from November to May, with any luck.

Certainly something like the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 will be far superior to the Primacy all of the time and especially on snow. Other all season tires from major manufacturers will be satisfactory year round. Most will outperform the Primacy all year.

Those Bridgestones you mention do well against the best tire:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=177

[Idriveft86]

Originally Posted by Gearhd79

Ok I've read this thread which I think has gone way off track and I'm still trying to get a comparison between different all season tires. I do not drive this car every day but I would like to drive it during the winter months so I am looking for a decent all season tire that will still work well if I am on the highway and get stuck driving in a wintery mix. I have an SUV if I need to drive in some real snow. I have Dunlop Z2's for summer/performance driving. I am thinking of getting Bridgestone Potenza RE970AS pole positions. I have heard that dedicated winter tires ride like garbage in anything but snow. What you guys think?

Continental DWS stick with stock size or 205-50-17... if you don't mind soft sidewall.


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[Gearhd79]

Thanks for the info