Is the FA20 a dud? No high horsepower use?

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by hmong337

And we don't care for the s2k. Go to s2ki where somebody cares. This is about the 86.

Jesus christ, how obnoxious can you get?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by hmong337

Okay I think I solved it!

HKS FA20 supercharged seems to be the fastest gt86 around Tsukuba circuit ftw!!!! 580hp they claim with every piece of the car modified and everything built including racebox. 58 sec spoiler.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOlcNPGBSQE"]ADVAN Silvia Tsukuba Time Attack Record 52 secs Under Suzuki - YouTube[/ame]

Under Suzuki. FI FR record. 52.649

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Under Suzuki. FI FR record. 52.649

OMFG. Seriously. I know of all those cars. This is about the 86, FA20, and how far along it's been developed and going to be developed. Not interested? Go back to s2ki. Seriously.

Funny seeing all the CSG nuthuggers.

[shaunsweeney]

Dude calm yourself. I think CSG might be slightly more interested in this platform than you ever will.

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by shaunsweeney

Dude calm yourself. I think CSG might be slightly more interested in this platform than you ever will.

Not sure about that. Buddy talks as if the s2000 was sent from god. But yet hangs around the frs/brz forum

[shaunsweeney]

You do realize he races this platform and is a major part of developing race proven parts right!? You do also realize the S2000 was one of the greatest NA cars ever built right!? The fact that they came from the S2000 world to the 86 world should make you happy not defensive. When they say there is a long way to go, they are part of advancing not detracting from this platform.

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by shaunsweeney

You do realize he races this platform and is a major part of developing race proven parts right!? You do also realize the S2000 was one of the greatest NA cars ever built right!? The fact that they came from the S2000 world to the 86 world should make you happy not defensive. When they say there is a long way to go, they are part of advancing not detracting from this platform.

I realize that. But what does asm and undrr suzuki have to do with anything here? Sure it's great seeing other platforms going fast but iy's exactly that... other platforms.

[mav1178]

I find it funny people are talking about the FA20 and modding and making power and whatnot.

Most people don't even realize how R&D (and business) is funded. Everything takes time, no one is made of money.

Please come back again in 2 years and ask the same question. The R&D will catch up, it takes time (AND MONEY).

-alex

[shaunsweeney]

Originally Posted by hmong337

I realize that. But what does asm and undrr suzuki have to do with anything here? Sure it's great seeing other platforms going fast but iy's exactly that... other platforms.

How about you remove that avatar and signature picture....I mean they are of a different platform after all. Seriously though dude you're adding nothing to this community.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by hmong337

I realize that. But what does asm and undrr suzuki have to do with anything here? Sure it's great seeing other platforms going fast but iy's exactly that... other platforms.

You're answering your own question here:

Why is tuners from other platforms relevant? Why do we care what other cars have gone through? What is the relevance of what was done to a SR20DET back in 1993 relevant to the FA20 in 2014?

Time. Money. Manpower. Resources. Feedback.

It's a cycle. You see all these average/above average tuners, selling us tunes that blow up engines. Then either they fix it, improve, or someone fixes it, and improves, shops come and go.

The key here is, look at a business product cycle. From budgeting, sales, to more budgeting, to more sales, marketing, warranty, it's all an endless cycle. These things take time.

A lot of what will happen to the FA20 will take months and years. Anyone complaining about the FA20 being a "dud" needs to look back at other chassis and platforms and tuners for some historical context. People say the SR20DET was the best engine ever... it took the Japanese aftermarket almost 10 years to "fully develop" the engine, then people in the US started swapping it into S13/14s in the early 2000s like it was no big deal.... these same people talked endless shit about KA24s being inferior, when in reality the KA saw virtually zero R&D support from the aftermarket because of a negative stigma from enthusiasts about the tuning potential of the KA.

It takes time.

Wait 2 more years, then you can try to label this engine a dud. And mark my words, you won't be using the same label then.

-alex

[illmatic]

The TRD Griffon is getting there...
2013 TRD Griffon 1:01.872
2014 TRD Griffon 1:00.749 (230ps , 980kg)

[Captain Insano]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That's because most shops keep it hush hush when they blow up motors. It's not good for sales when Shop XYZ says that they blew a motor using their XYZ Turbosupercharger kit. It *is* good when they claim 500whp on pump gas, with stock internals.

How many people here actually push big power, AND drive it hard?

How many people know how many motors have been swapped into different cars between the major players on this forum? I can tell you that EVERY shop pushing cars hard have blown motors.

I mean, come on. We've two STOCK motors fail on us.

Most shops will showcase their successes, but not their failures. That's why you don't hear of the blown engines.

Reliable FI can be had, but don't expect to be making EJ/2J/SR/4G/etc. levels of power.

You beat the living shit out of your cars (thanks for pushing the limits by the way). You have 100s or 1000s of back to back to back to.. road course laps on your cars and pictures of them with literally red hot glowing rotors. All that abuse considered you also have admittedly a known shift issue above 5200 RPMs. You say you can recreate or avoid this DI seal/det problem on the OEM tune. Sounds very rare and also avoidable if known about OR with an aftermarket tune for the transient boost table. How exactly is this the engine long block's fault (it is more the OEM tune, which are notoriously bad with Subaru on other cars like the STI)?

Same thing can be said about all those other engines in their first 1.5 years of aftermarket usage... How many were blown up of the EJ, 4G63, etc.. Lots.

And same can be said about how many people are pushing them hard. How many 1000 hp 2JZs actually get pushed hard on a road course track like you beat the living crap out of your BRZs on the track?? In the first 1.5 years of development at that?

I'm not saying this engine is the end all be all of engines. I'm saying in a $25K car in this day and age, in the first 1.5 years of aftermarket tuning/usage... It's not doing too bad. Not bad at all.

The fact is, I think most people now have extremely unrealistic expectations of what an engine should be able to handle with aftermarket modifications OR with hours of abuse on a road course. That said, for all the modifying and tuning going on, even if lots of shops are hiding blown engines like you say, there are LOTS of people daily driving and some tracking FI cars at 250-350whp without issue. Not bad for how young the car is.

[SkAsphalt]

Originally Posted by Captain Insano

The fact is, I think most people now have extremely unrealistic expectations of what an engine should be able to handle with aftermarket modifications OR with hours of abuse on a road course. That said, for all the modifying and tuning going on, even if lots of shops are hiding blown engines like you say, there are LOTS of people daily driving and some tracking FI cars at 250-350whp without issue. Not bad for how young the car is.

Yep, exactly.

Unrealistic expectations (and acting immature) seems to be a theme with this thread

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Captain Insano

You beat the living shit out of your cars (thanks for pushing the limits by the way). You have 100s or 1000s of back to back to back to.. road course laps on your cars and pictures of them with literally red hot glowing rotors. All that abuse considered you also have admittedly a known shift issue above 5200 RPMs. You say you can recreate or avoid this DI seal/det problem on the OEM tune. Sounds very rare and also avoidable if known about OR with an aftermarket tune for the transient boost table. How exactly is this the engine long block's fault (it is more the OEM tune, which are notoriously bad with Subaru on other cars like the STI)?

Same thing can be said about all those other engines in their first 1.5 years of aftermarket usage... How many were blown up of the EJ, 4G63, etc.. Lots.

And same can be said about how many people are pushing them hard. How many 1000 hp 2JZs actually get pushed hard on a road course track like you beat the living crap out of your BRZs on the track?? In the first 1.5 years of development at that?

I'm not saying this engine is the end all be all of engines. I'm saying in a $25K car in this day and age, in the first 1.5 years of aftermarket tuning/usage... It's not doing too bad. Not bad at all.

The fact is, I think most people now have extremely unrealistic expectations of what an engine should be able to handle with aftermarket modifications OR with hours of abuse on a road course. That said, for all the modifying and tuning going on, even if lots of shops are hiding blown engines like you say, there are LOTS of people daily driving and some tracking FI cars at 250-350whp without issue. Not bad for how young the car is.

We still don't know if a tune fixes the transient knock issue. We'll find out the hard way I suppose, since we're on a 2014 now using the latest base calibration tables with a tune.

Our 2013 only had stock engines. We purposely left it untouched, because we expected to have issues. What we didn't expect is Subaru's unwillingness to admit that they have an error (which was theoretically corrected on later ECU revisions; the changes are certainly there).

I guess you can say that we did the R&D for Subaru/Toyota.

For the record, our first engine had logged about 150 total laps over the course of about 20 track days. Our second engine had about 80 laps over 10 track days. The rest were all street miles.

The local can tell you how few laps we actually do when we're testing, unless we're stressing a heat component.

We've had a lot of people asking why we're only pushing 240-245whp, and using the CARB tune. Because we want to take baby steps. We know we can make more power with very minor changes to our setup, and we'll do so when we're ready, but we want to take small steps and document what's going on so that we can source issues that pop up as we progress.

My S2k engine has been untouched since day 1, and I drive it far harder than the CSG BRZ... I'll admit that we may have set the bar rather high, since we're used to engines that are pretty stout. The FI CSG S2k has more laps on it than all of the BRZ laps combined, and then some. Like it's been stated, the F2xC has more development.