Lets learn to drive manual! Save my clutch Season 1

[Whitigir]

This will come to you as you drive the car. Every car Rev matching is different. People say "has it own personality"

There are only few basics that you need to learn.

Clutch down...gear shift....clutch out...drive.

When you are stopped at a Hill and the car may roll down, you can do

Hand brake + Brake....then release brake pedal...clutch in...rev up....release brake + gas down together.

Of course, when you get a grip of your own car, you dont need that hand brake unless very very steep hill

[Whitigir]

Originally Posted by Formula Vee

My personal opinion is that rev-matching and heel-toe braking/downshifting should come into the picture after you're totally comfortable with every other aspect of operating a manual transmission, if it comes into the picture at all.

Although a very small percentage of MT drivers use it to smooth shifts and reduce mechanical wear, the main purpose of blipping the throttle during a downshift is to not upset the balance of the vehicle when braking into a high-speed turn, and that's really only critical in a racing situation. I've been driving MT for ~15 years and racing open-wheel cars for 4 years; I rarely blip the throttle on the street, but I do it every lap on the track. It's awkward and unnecessary on the street.

In my experience and opinion.

I totally agree. Almost UN-necessary on the street. Unless you want other passengers to feel comfortable.

I read some where people say driving in neutral when preparing to stop in UK is against the law....you will always need to be in gears, correct gears. Well...I don't know. That will ruin the clutch and trans even worse, unless those Jerks were spouting Trolls....

[himbo]

Originally Posted by calidus

I noticed that there are a few of us learning/relearning to drive manual, I was hoping we could share some advice and ask for help in this thread. The amount of information online is overwhelming for beginners with "advanced" topics ranging from heel and toe, double clutching, and rev matching. I would like to focus on the basics of driving the car safely and with minimal wear and tear.

I found this video how a clutch works to be pretty helpful for trying to understand what is actually happening when you press the clutch.

These two introductory videos on driving manual that I thought were also pretty good.

• 
  

Useful Threads

• Rev Matching

I was hoping the more experienced members could help put together a list of bad habits, that we should avoid.

Bad Habits to Avoid:

1. Riding the clutch- Putting enough pressure on the clutch pedal to partially engage the friction plate on the clutch, therefore he clutchplate will not grip the flywheel properly and will partially slip.
2. Resting your hand on the shifter?
3. ???

Questions:

1. What should I be doing while waiting at a traffic light(assume no incline)? Neutral? 1st with the clutch completely pressed?
2. If am making a left turn at intersection from a complete stop should I be shifting from 1st into 2nd while turning?
3. If I come out of 5th gear and I am coasting, then when I am ready to accelerate again, what gear should I put the car into?

Excellent thread. I'd like to contribute to things to avoid.
3) avoid shifting to 1st gear unless you're pretty much stationary. 2nd will suffice.
4) showing into gears is not good for your synchros. You shift very quickly even with finger pressure

[Pete156]

Originally Posted by Whitigir

I read some where people say driving in neutral when preparing to stop in UK is against the law....you will always need to be in gears, correct gears.

It is technically illegal to 'coast' out of gear even in the good ole USA if you look closely at the laws of many states. It appears brakes are a liability.

Advice to new MT drivers:

Use the dead pedal
Be in the right gear for your speed
Practice
Don't be intimidated by passengers

[Whitigir]

Thank you pete156 for the clarification.

[N1rve]

I was taught to never to down shift until first unless I was stationary and to make turns in second gear.

[flashburn]

What about shifting into first gear, while coming to a stop (say at a stop sign), but not disengaging the clutch until < 5MPH? Is that still putting wear on the synchros?

[uEih]

Originally Posted by calidus

Ok next question: When should I be coasting in gear(not touching any pedals) vs downshifting + rev matching?

Not really sure what you mean by this but you usually coast while slowing down and if the RPM gets too low you downshift + rev match. I personally keep my downshifts in order so there isn't much of a change in RPM.

[daiheadjai]

Do not coast to a stop in neutral.
It forces your fuel injectors to send fuel to the engine to keep it from stalling, whereas leaving it in gear allows the wheels to keep the engine running (and thus saves you fuel).

Moreover, if some sudden need to accelerate arises, being in gear would likely be safer.

[Suberman]

I agree this thread is almost entirely very useful information for anyone, not just novices.

Although coasting is illegal that law is seriously out of date. It used to be thought the car needed to be in gear at all times in case the brakes didn't work. That risk hasn't been real for decades now. Dual circuit brakes, ABS pressure reservoirs and extremely reliable brake hydraulics make a prohibition against coasting stupid.

Coasting doesn't save fuel though as another poster pointed out because all emission controlled engines shut off the fuel when on overrun, in gear.

However, it is unclear whether engine braking while in gear slows the car by enough to negate the fuel savings from injector shut off. Nobody has actually studied the net effect on fuel consumption. As freewheel gets introduced into more transmissions to save fuel the same computer controlling this will also be able to shut off the fuel while also coasting, mostly.

Modern hybrid drives are in the pipeline that will make this all academic. The current state of the art hybrid drives replace the torque converter with a powerful induction electric motor. Eventually, the engine will be shut down when on overrun, the car will coast and use no fuel doing so. The engine will restart using the hybrid drive as the starter motor. The hybrid drive will also recover energy KERS style if the driver uses the brakes.

Finally, downshifting to first while moving is a useful high performance driving skill best learned after you can double clutch your downshift from third to second. Heel and toe is often required because even the best synchronizers have trouble speeding up the gearbox enough to allow a decent 2 to 1 downshift. I do it routinely to take very slow corners as quickly as possible especially sharp hairpins. If you can complete the 2 to 1 downshift then you have finally learned how to drive stick.

Congratulations as this is likely the latest new car you'll own that will have a stock to shift with!

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Although coasting is illegal that law is seriously out of date. It used to be thought the car needed to be in gear at all times in case the brakes didn't work. That risk hasn't been real for decades now. Dual circuit brakes, ABS pressure reservoirs and extremely reliable brake hydraulics make a prohibition against coasting stupid.

Agreed, but it takes decades (literally) of complaining for regulations to get changed.

After over decades of this being the case, the FAA finally removed the prohibition against using electronic devices on take-off and landing, and stopped saying "Because it could interfere with the navigation devices of the aircraft." Engineers have been using the same if not more powerful electronic devices around unprotected aircraft electronics in lab and never saw interference for YEARS. Yet the FAA only recently recinded that reg.

Imagine how long it'll take before the laws against coasting in a vehicle are rescinded.

Even longer I bet.

Originally Posted by Suberman

Modern hybrid drives are in the pipeline that will make this all academic. The current state of the art hybrid drives replace the torque converter with a powerful induction electric motor. Eventually, the engine will be shut down when on overrun, the car will coast and use no fuel doing so. The engine will restart using the hybrid drive as the starter motor. The hybrid drive will also recover energy KERS style if the driver uses the brakes.

You'll never catch me driving one of those "extreme mpg über alles" econoboxes... ever. ICE cars or bust till full electric performance vehicles are financially viable. None of this weak-kneed hybrid crap.

[Frost]

For my edification: when you guys say coasting are you referring to the following:

- pop gear in neutral
- foot off clutch pedal

When I slow down for a light/stop sign, I always clutch in and brake whilst gearing down depending on speed. This way if I suddenly have to get going again before coming to a complete stop, I am already in gear and can blip and go quite smoothly and as if nothing happened.

If I come to a complete stop and if it's a fresh red, I pop in neutral and clutch out, put foot on dead pedal and wait.

I purposely listed all obvious steps for those reading who are new to this.

Been doing this for well over 11 years but never thought of what you guys are mentioning.

[Whitigir]

Coasting to a stop in neutral is well: Neutral

If you are in Neutral, the transmission is neutralized of any torque from the engine, and vice versa. The engine will run Idling, and in modern engine, it does not waste fuel as you think.

If you put the car in gear to slow the car down...this is big different. You see how the clutch work ? It is basically a disc brake (flywheel)with full surface Pad (clutch). Friction allows it to transfer Torque to your transmission and ....etc....moving your car. This same friction can also slow you down using the engine (engine brake.) This is possible because the gear you are in is too small, vs the engine rotational speed is too high, the clutch will have to slip greatly on the Flywheel to accommodate the gear rotational speed...basically it uses friction.....but slow your car down instead....this means you are braking VIA the Clutch + Flywheel rather than Discs brakes and pads

By doing engine Brake, you put too much Torque Tensions onto the transmission through the gears...which it was never an intentional engineering. Transmission and gears were engineered to distribute the Torque from small to bigger via momentum....put it simple.....your Transmission was never designed to be driven from 6---to 1....you will burn your Clutch, and Crack the gears....slip the Synchros....whatever

Conclusion.....Engine Brake kills your Drive train much faster than expected....that is Transmission (whole) + Clutch + Flywheel....some after market Aluminum flywheel will be easily warped.

I do not know why coasting in gear...or engine brake is useful as people said. You may be coasting in the right gear...which will only slow you down a little bit...less stress on the Drive Train...but that is the same as Starting in 2nd gear....or 3rd gear (5-6 speeds)

[Frost]

Engine braking always makes me cringe - even when trucks do it (I know I know they are designed or maintained for it but still).