What Class do you think the Twins would go to for SP???

[mrazny]

Originally Posted by Eric1855

AKA protect the grumpy old guys

It's a touch more involved than that. It's the new car dominates, grumpy old guys flee the class, not all that many other also build said new dominating car...

Worst case scenario, the car is already faster in year 1 from 2 builds, 14 drivers ditch the class, now there are 8 drivers from 3 twins and the one RX-8 that still thinks it can develop more.

The Grumpy old men may be grumpy, and occasionally irrational, but there is also what faith there can be in National Twin SP builds. We have quite a few "class it and they will come" classes. SP as a whole is down. It's a s@*t situation.

[StormTrooper]

Originally Posted by Eric1855

AKA protect the grumpy old guys

No offense to the veterans but the whole rules system is setup that way.

Engine safety stuff is in sp or sm.
Drive shaft should be in STX.
Electric fans? Really
Stuff from the cars own tuning division putting you out of STX.



* opinion from several people who DD their cars and lightly mod them.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by StormTrooper

No offense to the veterans but the whole rules system is setup that way.

Engine safety stuff is in sp or sm.
Drive shaft should be in STX.
Electric fans? Really
Stuff from the cars own tuning division putting you out of STX.



* opinion from several people who DD their cars and lightly mod them.

No way should they allow lightened driveshafts in STX. That's a high cost item that would be seen as a have to have mod and would drive the cost of being competitive up. Plus it would be an allowance that a FWD car could not get the same benefit from. Lightened flywheels and clutches aren't allowed in STX so why should a driveshaft be different?

As far as STi parts kicking you out of STX; those rules exist because if said parts were allowed, they would make the car more unstreetable or open up an allowance that people would be custom building parts for maximum advantage.

If you want to be competitive in a Solo class, build to those rules. If you want to mod your car however you want, do it and base your "competitiveness" on whatever class you want.

[StormTrooper]

Aluminium DS is $450. Considerably cheaper than say light weight seats.

I'm talking about aero parts specifically. For instance BRZ is the same car as FRS. BRZ can run wing but not the TRD one FRS can use neither.

Also FWD really have no Drivetrain loss to speak of like RWD and AWD .

[mrazny]

Your angle creeps into the "I" class type of thinking. The class has allowances, so how the mod affects *other* cars is also on the table. A Driveshaft for you and your car is not a drive shaft for a BMW, RX-8, etc. If you assume the rules have things stable today, and the Twin is equal to the ITR, your Driveshaft allowance improves your Twin while it can't improve the ITR.

The actual reason for limiting "tuner" division things is also because no two tuners are equal across car companies. Dealer-installed is a part that mucks up a lot as well. There are dealerships that have "tuner" specials with parts beyond that manufacturer's tuner division.


What the SCCA cares about (and should continue to care about) is how the cars compete based on the rules in place. A new rule should only foster a more equitable competition amongst the cars in the class, and mods that increase the cost to compete should be scrutinized severely.

[PoorMansRacing]

Does anyone know if upgrading the OEM driveshaft to a solid aluminium driveshaft is allowable in SP?

[Scooby South]

nope....not legal... if you change it out...it goes to SM.. or some other Prepared class..not Street Prepared..

Bill

[mrazny]

Originally Posted by BRZTimeTrials

Does anyone know if upgrading the OEM driveshaft to a solid aluminium driveshaft is allowable in SP?

"Driveshaft" appears 19 times in the rules, replacement along with driveshaft doesn't happen until Prepared. The Update/Backdate rules are what some cars are utilizing when they do any Driveshaft changes, but obviously at that point we're still talking OEM or OEM-spec aftermarket for older out of production driveshafts.

[mrazny]

Originally Posted by Scooby South

nope....not legal... if you change it out...it goes to SM.. or some other Prepared class..not Street Prepared..

Bill

SM is probably the ticket like Bill said. "D. Drivetrain and related components (induction, ignition, fuel systems,
etc.) are unrestricted except for the following limitations:", and none of the following paragraphs talk about driveshafts. Though Prepared allows for clearancing for fitment, and SM does not allow for much significant modification for that purpose.

Strange though that SM seems to imply you can change transmissions too. No "trans" specific language to limit that unrestricted drivetrain... Never thought about that part of the ruleset...

Bill, I'm glad you're staying with STX, but I'd love to see your version of an SM twin

[Scooby South]

Originally Posted by mrazny

SM is probably the ticket like Bill said. "D. Drivetrain and related components (induction, ignition, fuel systems,
etc.) are unrestricted except for the following limitations:", and none of the following paragraphs talk about driveshafts. Though Prepared allows for clearancing for fitment, and SM does not allow for much significant modification for that purpose.

Strange though that SM seems to imply you can change transmissions too. No "trans" specific language to limit that unrestricted drivetrain... Never thought about that part of the ruleset...

Bill, I'm glad you're staying with STX, but I'd love to see your version of an SM twin

If, in fact, I ever went SM..it would involve a twin-scroll, flares... and 315 A6's...

Bill

[Eric1855]

Originally Posted by Scooby South

If, in fact, I ever went SM..it would involve a twin-scroll, flares... and 315 A6's...

Bill

That with e85, lots of weight removal and spiffy CF parts is what I would like to do...but it probably still wouldn't be competitive against the monsters SM brings out these days.

[Scooby South]

^^^^ and this tooo

[mrazny]

Originally Posted by Scooby South

^^^^ and this tooo

Min weight is 2480 if you keep things at 51% rear or less, and 2565 if you go over 51% rear. Panda was in the mid 2600's, not sure if that's still the case.

A 2480 at a perfect 51% sounds like a good recipe. It also sounds better than CSP