Another One of These: Totaled or Not? Heartbroken

[GT 86 Brah]

my car had similar damage but not like that bad. i would say it definitely totaled though. atleast it can be replaced, you cant.

[Winjr]

Originally Posted by TM

I might just buy a cheap used car and live with it.

I kept my cheap Mazda Protege with 224k miles on it, a decision made easier when the BRZ dealer wouldn't give me even $10 for it. Seriously. The car is a mess. He suggested I take it to a scrap yard. Threw snow tires on the front and now I keep the BRZ parked any time there's snow or salt on the roads.

Right now it's been about 2 weeks since I drove the BRZ and I REALLY miss it lol.

[ftc~brz]

I feel ya

[Touge_ninja]

That'll buff out

[hmong337]

I'm not gonna hold back and say it.... you're an idiot for running the stock wheels/tires through a storm like that! Your negligence costed you your car. Hope you learned from this. Just be glad you didn't hurt anybody else on the roadway from your ill choice of running those shit tires.

Be safe everyone. Let this be a warning to all you hero wannabes who think the stock wheels and tires are adequate for winter driving.

[jeffchap]

Totaled, sorry bro.


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[Photonic]

how did the stability control respond? did it respond it all? I know its not an infallible system but did it even try to lock the fronts to keep the car from rotating? I am just curious what you felt it was doing JUST for the sake of interest.

Ive seen vids of Hyundai TCS operating in snow , summer tires , on a genesis sedan. It slid around everywhere but the TCS was constantly enabled and sorting it out.

[Mad1723]

Originally Posted by Photonic

how did the stability control respond? did it respond it all? I know its not an infallible system but did it even try to lock the fronts to keep the car from rotating? I am just curious what you felt it was doing JUST for the sake of interest.

Ive seen vids of Hyundai TCS operating in snow , summer tires , on a genesis sedan. It slid around everywhere but the TCS was constantly enabled and sorting it out.

I'd be curious to see that video, but stability control won't save you from a complete loss of control. The point of it is to stabilize the car to avoid the worst. If the guys in your videos were not in an unplanned situation, I doubt it was remotely dangerous. Any car will be fine until it's sideways in the snow. Then it's too late for driving aids.

My car does activate everything in the slightest slide in the snow, that doesn't mean I would rely on that too keep me on the road with summer tires in the winter.

Summer tires are never safe in snow. Hell, even winter tires are not completely safe. Drive smart and avoid dangerous situations. The best driving aid is the person holding the wheel.

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[Photonic]

I agree whole heartedly! That is why I was just interested in hearing what he felt or experienced.

It doesnt matter if its snow or ice though, a car cannot rotate if there is equal slip front and rear. He rotated somehow, drastically. It should have sent him neutral bound on all 4 wheels when it detected excess yaw and wheel slip. Better to hit with your door and scrape than spin.

I want to understand more about how these systems work ...

The only reason a car can rotate is because one end carries momentum around a "anchored" surface. In most cases its the front tires, remove front tire grip and the car ceases to rotate but it will maintain yaw angle until one end of the car exerts a force. This is why I prefer some understeer tuned into my cars ...

Im just thinking about how to improve such a automated system *scratches head*

[Mad1723]

Originally Posted by Photonic

I agree whole heartedly! That is why I was just interested in hearing what he felt or experienced.

It doesnt matter if its snow or ice though, a car cannot rotate if there is equal slip front and rear. He rotated somehow, drastically. It should have sent him neutral bound on all 4 wheels when it detected excess yaw and wheel slip. Better to hit with your door and scrape than spin.

I want to understand more about how these systems work ...

The only reason a car can rotate is because one end carries momentum around a "anchored" surface. In most cases its the front tires, remove front tire grip and the car ceases to rotate but it will maintain yaw angle until one end of the car exerts a force. This is why I prefer some understeer tuned into my cars ...

Im just thinking about how to improve such a automated system *scratches head*

The anchored surface in this case would simply be one wheel which still has contact with dry pavement. It would create a rotation center around that point, as the spinning wheels would send the car on a rotation around that point. A sudden wheel movement or simply a throttle input is enough to offset the delicate balance of the car on the ice, sending the car in a spin.

Now, most stability controls systems use the brakes to bring the car back in line. In a dry situation or a situation where one wheel or two lose traction, it can help. But in a situation where the traction is sketchy at best, the system attempts to correct with brakes, but cant change anything because it doesn't get any traction on the wheels where brakes are used, hence the total loss of control.

I already did a 180 degrees on a frozen highway, doing 15 mph because my braking upset the already precarious balance of the car. One wheel served as pivot and I ended up facing the wrong way, looking at the driver that was behind me seconds ago, now facing me. I shrugged, turned the car around and went my merry way.

It could have been worse, ended up being a lesson on cold weather driving: always assume you could slide at any moment. Have an escape plan to avoid endangering the others

Aim for the ditch!

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[dpesce]

Important thing is your OK OP!! Reminds me of my 95 Mustang. I live in Charlotte and don't drive much so I had some thick summer rubber still on the car. Well, I had to come home (Maryland) for the holidays so I stuck my other set of tires on, falsely thinking it would help (Goodyear A/S POS tires). I got home fine and was on 355 making a turn in the rain (about 20 degrees outside), and a guy turned out onto the road from the other way. I lightly twitched the wheel to give him space and tapped the brakes, and not being used to the tire breaking point, totally lost the car. Next thing I know I'm staring at the guy in the outside lane next to me. I pull off the pedals and try to get the car straightened out. Failed, and spun off into the grass. Somehow avoided damage but just about Shat myself: Being a 20 year old, any mistake wreaks havoc on my insurance. Heart pounded, I yanked the wheel and went on my merry way. Promising myself to run to NTB and buy some Winter Rubber. Drove the Shitstang through another winter and bought the BRZ. Now you're scaring me cause I still have the summer stickies on the BRZ (till next paycheck!!!)!

[Photonic]

Originally Posted by Mad1723

The anchored surface in this case would simply be one wheel which still has contact with dry pavement. It would create a rotation center around that point, as the spinning wheels would send the car on a rotation around that point. A sudden wheel movement or simply a throttle input is enough to offset the delicate balance of the car on the ice, sending the car in a spin.

Now, most stability controls systems use the brakes to bring the car back in line. In a dry situation or a situation where one wheel or two lose traction, it can help. But in a situation where the traction is sketchy at best, the system attempts to correct with brakes, but cant change anything because it doesn't get any traction on the wheels where brakes are used, hence the total loss of control.

I already did a 180 degrees on a frozen highway, doing 15 mph because my braking upset the already precarious balance of the car. One wheel served as pivot and I ended up facing the wrong way, looking at the driver that was behind me seconds ago, now facing me. I shrugged, turned the car around and went my merry way.

It could have been worse, ended up being a lesson on cold weather driving: always assume you could slide at any moment. Have an escape plan to avoid endangering the others

Aim for the ditch!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Keeping all this in mind, and barring my ignorance of the technology at work. The principles are the same.

You can see why some of us prefer a mechanical 2way, no ABS and TCS. Because in this situation, a change in yaw moment on one axle can be managed by your feet and hands. As you say, so a wheel was stuck gripping while the other wheels pivoted around it. If you had a no holds bar mechanical direct connection like a 2 way on a straight line, you could power out and reduce rear grip entirely while going to full lock (effectively = understeer, because you are increasing front slip angle to match the rear everytime you countersteer) and maintaining a neutral steer slide on a straighter path ... I do not claim to say I could beat the OP ...but all things being equal, I do not like electronics working for me.

This is just my preference ....and It seems like people say "disengaging RELATIVELY modern aids" means "instant death".

They should lobby for all cars prior to 2003 to be fitted with standard Traction and stability control systems ..because anyone driving them will fly off the road.

[Captain Stall]

Originally Posted by Winjr

Threw snow tires on the front...

You really should have the same grip all the way around, but this sounds like you don't have snow tires on the back.

[TM]

Originally Posted by Photonic

how did the stability control respond? did it respond it all? I know its not an infallible system but did it even try to lock the fronts to keep the car from rotating? I am just curious what you felt it was doing JUST for the sake of interest.

Ive seen vids of Hyundai TCS operating in snow , summer tires , on a genesis sedan. It slid around everywhere but the TCS was constantly enabled and sorting it out.

Before the spinning out, when my car started sliding slightly, I noticed the traction control coming on to try to straighten my car. It was the second time it started sliding (about a split second after it gripped again) and then something caused my car to spin. While it was spinning, I felt like I had completely no grip. I think the traction control light was blinking but I didn't feel the road at all.

There were a lot of cars both in front and behind me on the highway due to the conditions, so I was glad that when I spun out, I didn't hit anyone. The car behind me was really close on my tail, so I'm glad he was able to avoid me.