Perrin Super steer for 86?

[PERRIN_Mladen]

Originally Posted by *KID*

So is this out yet? lol
Would love to try it

The steering rack lockdown kit is out, if that is what you are referring to. If you are interested, shoot me a PM

Originally Posted by AdrianG

Does the steering rack lock just go on over the factory bushing? Would it be compatible with aftermarket bushings like the whiteline KSR210 installed?

- AdrianG

If you have aftermarket urethane ones, there is improvement to be had with ours, but it will be minimal.

If you have metal, solid type ones, there will be no improvement.

If you already have the Whiteline ones, I would honestly say that adding our part, will not make much of a difference. That's not to deter you from buying it, but I don't want you to feel as if you've wasted your hard earned money for a small change!

[PERRIN_Jeff]

Good feedback for sure!
The concerns some have are the same as ours, which is "Nanny Control". As the steering angle vs slip angle will not match, it may do weird things. Or maybe it won't. On the STI's it didn't do anything weird, but since this car is way more tail happy it could.

It will work with the electric PS no problem but the amount of force that the pump can put out may not be enough. On the STI it did make the steering heavier (with a more powerful hydraulic setup) and had no long term issues. On the BRZ we have heard of customers have the electric setup make weird noises from lots of autocross events. There are a bunch of unknowns here for sure. With enough customers asking it may end up being something we seriously consider making.

[diss7]

I'm interested.

Driving aids are not an issue for me, as I have them disabled.

If we needed a bigger PS pump, its not a deal breaker. Theyre not that expensive, especially considering that people with race cars are always looking for electric PS pumps, so could sell current pump easily; if it came to that.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by diss7

If we needed a bigger PS pump, its not a deal breaker. Theyre not that expensive, especially considering that people with race cars are always looking for electric PS pumps, so could sell current pump easily; if it came to that.

We don't have a PS pump, our racks are 100% manual. The electric assistance is provided by a geared motor right on the steering column.

[diss7]

The more you know

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by wparsons

It is 100% 2.5 turns lock to lock, you get 1.25 turns each way. Sounds like you're not after less turns lock to lock but more steering angle overall?

Well, less turn lock to lock does mean less input per steering angle.

Originally Posted by wparsons

Without knowing the rack ratio on the AW11 and the distance from outer tie rod to ball joint on the knuckle I can't really guess at what else is happening, but I would imagine the shorter wheelbase on the AW11 also helps with what you're feeling. The wheelbase is almost a full 10" shorter on the MR2 than on the FRS/BRZ/GT86 which is a pretty big difference.

Cheers, noted.

Originally Posted by wparsons

Any quick steer kit I've seen won't change how many turns lock to lock, just how much steering angle you get for a given wheel input.

It does, for the same reason above.
The specific kit I was talking about is this
http://www.palmside.co.nz/product_pcid_15195.html
@diss7 probably knows about it already for his AE86 since it is the same kit.

[diss7]

I decided against a quick rack for my ae86. I have a PS rack (which is quicker than a manual) which I've since manualised. The steering is heavy enough without making it worse.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by diss7

I decided against a quick rack for my ae86. I have a PS rack (which is quicker than a manual) which I've since manualised. The steering is heavy enough without making it worse.

It is my favourite mod to date on that car, although I get bulging forearms after a few sessions, just like when I go karting.

[wparsons]

Don't confuse a quick rack with an aftermarket addition that just changes the pivot location on the hub... with a full rack you can do anything to the number of turns lock to lock as well as the internal ratio.

I was purely talking about kits like the Perrin one that just move the pivot point inwards to get more steering angle from the same wheel input with the stock rack.

[s2d4]

That makes no sense.
So you are saying, with less steering input resulting in same lock steering angle will mean that it will still be 2.5 turns lock to lock?

[wparsons]

I think you're mixing some things up... think about what part you're replacing, and what effects what.

The steering rack is what determines how many turns you have lock to lock (and more specifically, the inner tie rods). If you disconnect the knuckle from the rack it will turn MUCH further than it does when attached to the rack.

The Perrin quick steer parts simply move the pivot point inwards on the knuckle. The result is that the knuckle (and consequently the wheel) steers more for a given input from the rack. The rack itself isn't changed in any way, just how the knuckle responds to input. You'll have a greater total steering angle with the Perrin kit since it doesn't effect the movement of the rack.

Now if you were to buy a rack with a faster ratio but same overall stroke then you would have the same total steering angle as stock but less turns lock to lock. With comparable ratios it would feel very similar to the Perrin solution (except the Perrin kit would have more total steering angle) but go about it in different ways.

[SubieNate]

It really depends on what the limiting factor is.

Situation A. 2.5 turns lock to lock at the rack, you add the Perrin kit. There is enough clearance for the additional steering angle created at full lock. You still have 2.5 turns lock to lock, but the total angle change the wheel undergoes from full right to full left is greater.

Situation B. 2.5 turns lock to lock at the rack, you add the Perrin kit. There isn't clearance for the wheels to angle as far as the rack could potentially push them (rubbing the fender/fender liner/suspension component etc). Your "effective" lock to lock distance reduces to 2.3, 2.3, 2.1 turns or whatever. In this situation you'd want to limit the steering rack some way so that you didn't damage something.

Both cases will feel the same up to the limit of their travel, given the same car.

What changes, and what could be different with the AW11:


[THEORETICAL]
AW11. 2.5 turns lock to lock, tierods mounted 3" from pivot axis.

GT86. 2.5 turns lock to lock, tierods mounted 4" from pivot axis.

Both cars are 2.5 turns lock to lock, but for the same amount of steering input, the AW11 outputs more steering angle given the same tie rod movement and therefore feels "quicker."

Now, it's really more complicated than this, because you could make two 2.5 turn lock to lock racks that output different linear changes in tierod position given the same amount of steering input.

So really, total "lock to lock" turns is really only an effective measurement at a very basic level, for magazine comparos and stuff. If it at or under 2.5 stock it's likely a pretty sporty car as grandma doesn't want something twitchy on the highway, so they give her 3.2 turns lock to lock and a long lever arm on the knuckle, making things nice and easy.

Cheers
Nathan

[koevasi]

Originally Posted by PERRIN_Mladen

The steering rack lockdown kit is out, if that is what you are referring to. If you are interested, shoot me a PM



If you have aftermarket urethane ones, there is improvement to be had with ours, but it will be minimal.

If you have metal, solid type ones, there will be no improvement.

If you already have the Whiteline ones, I would honestly say that adding our part, will not make much of a difference. That's not to deter you from buying it, but I don't want you to feel as if you've wasted your hard earned money for a small change!

I have an aluminum bushing in my car and i was hoping that there is still some difference with your lock. that's too bad. i'm just going to cancel my order and buy something else from your product list

thanks for your honesty nonetheless!