Disabled the driving aids. Here are my impressions.

[diss7]

There's clearly two defined sides to this entire argument. Despite whatever argument one side makes, the other side won't change.

Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

I think everything from either side has been discussed, enough so that someone can make their own call about which way they want to go.

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by Rio

You guys are so silly. I can't believe you are still going on about this.

Well... I'm hammered and still have a better argument than most people... and I love arguing, especially when I'm right.

[DrawingWaves]

I'm just gonna out it plain and simple for everybody arguing over this. It's your car do what you want with it. Hell, cut off the roof and make it a convertible if you feel like it. Point is, as long as you know that you can handle the car safely on public roads that should be ok. However, if those aids were to be disabled while driving on the streets and you happen to get into a car accident where somebody gets injured or dies, it's all on you. I wouldn't be able to carry that burden, so I will probably never even tempt myself with a switch but hey, OP seems to know what he is talking about so go for it. Just remember the responsibly it comes with. Happy new year my friends!

[enwave]

Originally Posted by Luis_GT

If it where that way, this car wouldn't be drift-able without the nannies, and it would't be faster without the nannies... and it does both quite successfully.

Did you not read my post? The reason why our car is very successful is because they did account for that 1%. Very well, actually. But the primary design still happens with an assumption that nannies will be engaged 99% of the driving time in these cars. I would feel safe assuming that even Toyota/Subaru track development may have had more nanny-on hours than nanny-off hours, or at least a lot closer than you probably think.

We know that track design was an integral and nearly primary focus for this car. But interviews with Tada-san/engineers clearly say that this is intended to be a car for "pure handling delight" from the factory, and a driver's car for drivers of many skill levels. Guess what the car comes with from the factory? Nannies. To think they didn't design around that is absurd. A brilliantly designed car can be designed around nannies without sacrificing track and non-nannied performance. That's the holy grail of sportscar design, and a major portion of the success of our car and the future success of the platform. It's what every sportscar designer/engineer today thrives to achieve.

You think they just threw nannies on there and called it good without any design consideration, expecting drivers and reviewers and consumers of all skill levels to give it such raving reviews and enjoy driving it?

No way, man. That's not how a commercial design process works. Not even close. And it certainly isn't how you build a successful car.

But there is no sense arguing with you, as you clearly have your mind set that engineers design the car completely, add nannies, then check the box and call it done without much more thought than that.

Silly.

EDIT: not to mention that I agree with you that ABS is a serious inhibitor for a highly skilled driver, and that I prefer driving without it in many situations. I'm just saying that your simplification of the design process is weak and inaccurate, and paints a totally incorrect picture of modern design processes.

I can agree to disagree - my original post in this thread specifically said "more power to you" if that's what you wanna do as long as you've made an accurate self-judgment of your personal driving skill, which it sounds like OP has.

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[ekek888]

i guess you dont know how the ABS works nor how long has so many cars have them. in some countries theyre mandatory. if you fear that it will do something like the devil just possessed your car and drove it off a clift, relax it wont. just in case it does you will be rewarded millions of dollars from judgement in your favor against the car makers. so put back the fuse please.

[dave77]

LOL wut? It's not some CRAZY PSYHO thing to disable ABS.

I'd believe your argument about the "danger" of it if you were talking about cutting the brake lines and driving without brakes and then say "yea that's sketch you could crash without brakes." But without ABS, still got the brakes and brake pedal working just fine.

Originally Posted by DrawingWaves

I'm just gonna out it plain and simple for everybody arguing over this. It's your car do what you want with it. Hell, cut off the roof and make it a convertible if you feel like it. Point is, as long as you know that you can handle the car safely on public roads that should be ok. However, if those aids were to be disabled while driving on the streets and you happen to get into a car accident where somebody gets injured or dies, it's all on you. I wouldn't be able to carry that burden, so I will probably never even tempt myself with a switch but hey, OP seems to know what he is talking about so go for it. Just remember the responsibly it comes with. Happy new year my friends!

[dave77]

"It's something the car is not designed to be without."

Oh so everything is just designed so perfect yee haw, can't mess with anything b/c everything is designed together flawlessly. If you disable the ABS, then the car will BLOW UP instantly b/c it's not designed to be without it. Oh man, gotta make sure to follow exactly what those engineers say. Oh gawd, can't mess anything up. Must follow their directions.

Originally Posted by gutbomb

If you have to pull a fuse to disable something then it's something the car is not designed to be without. Is that simple.

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[Target70]

I agree with OP. My last car is/was a manual trans 93 240sx, ka24de truck motor. With some decent low end torque, and no assists. drove it for over 10 years, no wrecks.

I kept it that long because no other lightweight rwd cars have hit our shores in many years (except lotus). I live in Georgia, so no snow. After having the FRS for 2 days I "lost control" twice with all aids on, because the aids were on. A simple throttle blip around a corner on a deserted 4 lane at night in the rain, resulted in ABS locking up one of my front tires and stopping me in the middle of the street. the other time I ended up in the oncoming lane. (rain/night/no traffic). The reason is simple I didn't know how to react. Unless you are a/the programmer or have a lot of experience with it, you don't know what/when/how the nannies will do to the car. It is hard to stay in control of a car, when the ECU adjusts your input signals, plus adds some of it's own, as in increasing breaking force for "panic breaking" so now under the right conditions (chances are you won't know what they are till they happen) your brake travel/stopping ratio will change.

I love accelerating this car through a sweeper, it feels planted, and secure. But even turning a 90 degree right from a stop sign makes the ABS do "something" to my right/rear at 10mph. That does not instill confidence. That is my greatest gripe with our new car. It sometimes makes me feel like I'm playing a video game. We understand physics on a primal level,(example you can catch a ball thrown, without having to calculate the force times angle and direction, you just go to where the ball is Going To Be) and can react to slip and geforces. But it's another job altogether to learn when and how an electronic system will react and how to react to IT. The only way to learn this is to push the car to that point, on the street, repeatedly, until you learn how it's going to react. Also, there is no way for the programmer to plan for every possible situation by every possible driver, that's when it "helps" some people and interferes with others.

From what I have read the majority of the discussion has been as to weather or not the car is designed to work it's best, with/without the aids, and If it was/was not designed to do X. My take is, Who Cares? Some of the best inventions were created by using something that was designed for one thing and using them for another.

Now if anybody made it past my BS, I have a thought about doing this without any permanent mods to the car. (I really don't want to butcher the stock wiring. I am an electronic technician/mechanic, but just in case I ever have to sell the car...) I don't even know where the ABS fuse is, but if there is room in the fuse box, a socket could be made to fit in the factory location, spaced so that one pin contacts the fuse box and fuse, and the other has two wires running to a switch. That with the timed relay someone posted in the diy section would give you the best of both worlds. nannies when you want them, never when you don't.

[dave77]

^I agree, sometimes when making pretty normal turns, the inside wheels do some kind of weird "aided" braking, and I'm like "WTF? is going on?"

[schmearcampain]

Of all the aids in the car, ABS is the least intrusive and the one most likely to save you from crashing.

[SloS14]

I consider myself a decent driver and stay calm under 99.9% of dangerous situations. With that being said, I was driving a Civic hatch a few years ago and had to brake hard very suddenly, and I locked up the brakes like a noob (no ABS of course) and started sliding forward. I missed the guy in front of me by an inch or less but it very easily could have ended badly. ABS is there for just that type of situation. Don't be a billy bad ass.

[Perihelion]

Originally Posted by Luis_GT

Well... I'm hammered and still have a better argument than most people... and I love arguing, especially when I'm right.

I'm kind of neutral on this whole topic, but saying things like this makes you sound like a douchebag.

And OP claims to have "fixed" the car, which implies that we all follow suit.

[kALMIGHTY]

I neither agree or disagree with the OP on the subject, but if you're braking hard enough under normal conditions on the street to cause your ABS to kick in, I have to question how recklessly you're driving to begin with. You should be nowhere near the limit of when your ABS is supposed to kick in on the streets.

The only time ABS ever kicked in for me on dry roads was when some douchebag decided to cut me off and then brake really hard, causing me to brake just as hard until my ABS kicked in. That only happened once, and that was under some pretty serious braking. Now it obviously kicks in all the time because of the icy and snowy roads where I live.

[T-dub]

Every story I've ever heard at the track containing the words "ice traction control" were bad. I don't like the idea that one of the wheels could go over a hump coming into a turn and the car decides we are on ice and not at the track. No one knows what the nannies do for sure, except the engineers, so I assume the worst. All that I ask is a way to disable them, but if they make it easy the douches that shouldn't turn it off, will. So they don't. They engineer for the lowest common denominator. Even "sports" cars. I searched for this thread FOREVER. OP, please change the title to something more search engine friendly!

I'm new to the board and this was very helpful!






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