FI choice validation

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by diss7

I don't sorry. I wish I did. I didn't know how to log at the time. We were looking at real time data, using the cable and my mechanic riding shotgun with his laptop. I'm sure he said 55 - 60 degrees. (Celsius) But I can check with him. Te issue was, it would get hotter as you're on the straights, but wouldn't cool back down enough in the twisties. So it would get hotter each lap. I probably exaggerated the 5 laps. That was about the point it needed the heater on. I still kept going. You could probably use it for 10 lap sessions at a stretch. I'm not happy to have a setup like that though.

Christchurch isn't excatly a hot place either. That day it was late Spring, 22 deg C give or take.

Yes we had the right fluid in the car. And we'd gotten all the air bubbles out of the system.

Where were you measuring the IATs from?

[protpibe]

Thanks for all of the info. I ended up ordering the Stage 1 Ceramic Coated setup from a local shop yesterday. I appreciate the vendors that got back to me with pricing etc, but ultimately the exchange rate and duty was killing it.

In your opinion, is an air/oil separator necessary? And a BOV?

[SkAsphalt]

Originally Posted by protpibe

Thanks for all of the info. I ended up ordering the Stage 1 Ceramic Coated setup from a local shop yesterday. I appreciate the vendors that got back to me with pricing etc, but ultimately the exchange rate and duty was killing it.

In your opinion, is an air/oil separator necessary? And a BOV?

Air/Oil - no.
BOV - not "needed" but it helps. If you plan to stick around base boost and everything else it will not be a huge issue. I picked one up because I know I will be playing with my PSI down the road

[Calum]

Requisite Canadian apology; sorry for disagreeing... I'd say the air/oil separator is required. Not a vent to atmosphere catch can, that's idiotic. But a simple aos on both PVC lines if boosted, or just the line going to the intake plenum if NA and doing lots of wot.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Calum

Requisite Canadian apology; sorry for disagreeing... I'd say the air/oil separator is required. Not a vent to atmosphere catch can, that's idiotic.

what's idiotic about it? and to answer the question no, of course a catch can of any sort isn't 'required'. recommended, not required.

i would argue that it's idiotic to go to all the trouble of installing a catch can then just plumb the junk back into the intake tract, but who am i to argue...

[Calum]

Originally Posted by jamesm

what's idiotic about it? and to answer the question no, of course a catch can of any sort isn't 'required'. recommended, not required.

i would argue that it's idiotic to go to all the trouble of installing a catch can then just plumb the junk back into the intake tract, but who am i to argue...

The idiotic part of a vent to atmosphere system is that it doesn't actively pull the blowby gasses from the crank case. This will allow the oil to be contaminated MUCH faster and will allow the crankcase to pressurize, at least to a higher pressure then original. Having the crankcase pressurized will cause the rings to not seal as well which will increase blowby even farther.

The positive crankcase ventilation system exists for a purpose, to remove blowby gasses from the crankcase and maintain a vacuum so as to increase ring sealing. When modifying the system to better suit a boosted engine the goal should be to make the system better without removing it's main function.

There are a few way to accomplish the main purposes of the PCV system: The best way would be a vacuum pump as they work at all times and under all engine conditions. The discharge can be routed to the intake if you're concerned about the environment, or to atmosphere if you don't care. The down side is they are expensive.

An engine based vacuum system is cheap and reliable, but only works at partial throttle or below, when the intake plenum is under vacuum, or if the intake to the forced induction compressor is pulling sufficient vacuum. These allow the blowby gases, including unburnt fuel, to be burnt in the engine which is better for the environment, but often route oil vapor and even liquid droplets back into the engines intake.

Another way is with an exhaust venturi, but these only work when the engine is at wide open throttle, are horrible for the environment, are illegal in most places, and will destroy a catalytic converter if it's downstream of the venturi.

So, most people stick with the engine based vacuum system, but why on earth would you just completely disable the system in an effort to modify it for boosted use. Why not maintain the system, but upgrade it for boosted use. A decent air/oil separator will allow the engine to maintain a vacuum in the crankcase but will remove any liquids from the air stream. You'll have to drain the aos, but that's a small price to pay for not having to change your oil every couple hundred miles. Or worse, letting your oil go, getting contaminated with exhaust gases so that it turns acidic & eats away at the bearings, all the while getting diluted with fuel so that the oil losses viscosity.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Calum

The idiotic part of a vent to atmosphere system is that it doesn't actively pull the blowby gasses from the crank case. This will allow the oil to be contaminated MUCH faster and will allow the crankcase to pressurize, at least to a higher pressure then original. Having the crankcase pressurized will cause the rings to not seal as well which will increase blowby even farther.

The positive crankcase ventilation system exists for a purpose, to remove blowby gasses from the crankcase and maintain a vacuum so as to increase ring sealing. When modifying the system to better suit a boosted engine the goal should be to make the system better without removing it's main function.

There are a few way to accomplish the main purposes of the PCV system: The best way would be a vacuum pump as they work at all times and under all engine conditions. The discharge can be routed to the intake if you're concerned about the environment, or to atmosphere if you don't care. The down side is they are expensive.

An engine based vacuum system is cheap and reliable, but only works at partial throttle or below, when the intake plenum is under vacuum, or if the intake to the forced induction compressor is pulling sufficient vacuum. These allow the blowby gases, including unburnt fuel, to be burnt in the engine which is better for the environment, but often route oil vapor and even liquid droplets back into the engines intake.

Another way is with an exhaust venturi, but these only work when the engine is at wide open throttle, are horrible for the environment, are illegal in most places, and will destroy a catalytic converter if it's downstream of the venturi.

So, most people stick with the engine based vacuum system, but why on earth would you just completely disable the system in an effort to modify it for boosted use. Why not maintain the system, but upgrade it for boosted use. A decent air/oil separator will allow the engine to maintain a vacuum in the crankcase but will remove any liquids from the air stream. You'll have to drain the aos, but that's a small price to pay for not having to change your oil every couple hundred miles. Or worse, letting your oil go, getting contaminated with exhaust gases so that it turns acidic & eats away at the bearings, all the while getting diluted with fuel so that the oil losses viscosity.

i see your point, and understand how pcv systems work pretty well, i just don't think there is anything materially different between running vacuum in the crankcase and not doing so. just in my experience, owning lots of cars with lots of different setups and knowing lots of people who do the same, it's not an issue.

the only issues i think i've ever seen on boosted cars were either from someone having nothing at all or a catch can that wasn't catching everything. the only way to guarantee there is no oil in your intake is to not give it a path to get there. not having vacuum in the crankcase isn't ideal, but it's better than pumping some amount of junk back through your turbo plumbing. i've never actually heard of or seen a real person have issues with crankcase pressure with a full vta setup, period. it's a theoretical argument, with no real material impact. the only thing that *does* have a material impact is how effective the extraction mechanism is, which in the case of most catch cans isn't very great. vta is 100% effective at keeping shit out of your intake, and that's kinda the whole point.

i'll change my mind when i see someone actually have a material issue arise from using a vta setup. until then i'll keep my shiny clean intercooler pipes.

[SkAsphalt]

Originally Posted by Calum

So, most people stick with the engine based vacuum system, but why on earth would you just completely disable the system in an effort to modify it for boosted use. Why not maintain the system, but upgrade it for boosted use. A decent air/oil separator will allow the engine to maintain a vacuum in the crankcase but will remove any liquids from the air stream. You'll have to drain the aos, but that's a small price to pay for not having to change your oil every couple hundred miles. Or worse, letting your oil go, getting contaminated with exhaust gases so that it turns acidic & eats away at the bearings, all the while getting diluted with fuel so that the oil losses viscosity.

This guy...so awesome.

[protpibe]

That's some good info. Opinions on the Cusco separator type catch can? Personally I think it looks better than the rest of the ones out there and it's in the same ballpark for pricing

I decided to also get the AVO 50/50 BOV and a AEM UEGO Failsafe boost/AFR gauge.

For the UEGO, I'm thinking of just having a bung welded onto the stock front pipe.

[coyote]

Originally Posted by protpibe

Thanks for all the great info.

What kind of intake options are there for the AVO kit? Just the drop in filter for the factory airbox? I have an AFE Takeda cold air and I'm assuming that will not be compatible due to the filter diameter.

I retuned the CarMods Australia (Australian AVO distributor) BRZ last week with an AVO turbo kit and Perrin intake on it.

I don't know if there is any benefit, but they are Perrin agents and wanted to use it. Scaled nicely and produced a solid result with E85 and mild boost.

I'm a fan of the stock airbox, but saw no issue with the Perrin.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by protpibe

That's some good info. Opinions on the Cusco separator type catch can? Personally I think it looks better than the rest of the ones out there and it's in the same ballpark for pricing

I haven't seen the inside of a Cusco, but you're looking for something with perforated trays or wire mesh or something alone those lines. Something that the oil droplets will hit and cause them to condense out of the air. You want it to be a sealed vessel with a drain on the bottom. If you're looking for effective and inexpensive, but aren't worried about the flashy looks you might try this.
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performan...52205/10002/-1

Or this one that includes hoses.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Steeda/957/555-3710/10002/-1

They're cheap and easy to maintain, but you will have to come up with your own mounts.

Edit, there even cheaper on Summitracing right now.
http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...3710/overview/

[jamesm]

Those look to be the same thing you can get at lowes in the air compressor aisle for like $15. Lots of people use those.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by jamesm

Those look to be the same thing you can get at lowes in the air compressor aisle for like $15. Lots of people use those.

They are, but if you use one for an air compressor you need to seal the drain valve as they are made or work under pressure and not vacuum. The fittings, and short length of hose, wont be enough to offset the price of a $15 separator from Lowes, though.

[Blown_xa]

Some have mentioned spool up and other good points to look at. Best spool doesn't necessary mean best transient response and best low end power. A well designed kit will have excellent volumetric efficiency even below the boost curve. PTUNING kit is a great example of this. Utilizing a GT3076r but still making more power as soon as the pedal is depressed, and this is compared to other top kits out there with smaller turbos. It is nice to have an out of the box kit capable of 500whp