Will the 2015 get this power boost?

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by go2brz

If you think that I set out to "straw man" you, all I can say is your paranoia will destroy you.

Absurd delusional response. Nothing substantive to add to support your bogus claims either I see.

[Stigmaru]

Both boxer and go2brz are right due the most part. I don't understand why you guys are arguing. Toyota really wanted to make this car but Subaru initially didn't and that's why it took forever to ever get the concept going. There was no reason for Subaru to make this car (they didn't need it like Toyota did) except pressure from the large amount of Subaru stock Toyota owns. And when Subaru agreed to it they had obvious conflicting ideals to this sport coupe compared to Toyota. But obviously Toyota won on the overall styling and design requirements. However despite the joint design team Subaru did most of the heavy Engineering, DETAILED design and tuning work which is how it works in real world engineering design anyways.

Toyota didn't have the resources in money and expertise to see this design thru. They had the vision.

Subaru would've came up with an entirely different car and not what the rwd sport enthusiasts wanted. They did know how to make this car great.

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by AeroWRX

Both boxer and go2brz are right due the most part. I don't understand why you guys are arguing. Toyota really wanted to make this car but Subaru initially didn't and that's why it took forever to ever get the concept going. There was no reason for Subaru to make this car (they didn't need it like Toyota did) except pressure from the large amount of Subaru stock Toyota owns. And when Subaru agreed to it they had obvious conflicting ideals to this sport coupe compared to Toyota. But obviously Toyota won on the overall styling and design requirements. However despite the joint design team Subaru did most of the heavy Engineering, DETAILED design and tuning work which is how it works in real world engineering design anyways.

Toyota didn't have the resources in money and expertise to see this design thru.

Subaru would've came up with an entirely different car and not what the rwd sport enthusiasts wanted.

I don't get it either. I agree for the most part except for the 'expertise' comment unless you mean the boxer engine. I don't see why the common perception is that Toyota, who built the LFA, Le Mans and Formula One cars, knows less about making a sports car than Subaru. Mind boggling...

[Stigmaru]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

I don't get it either. I agree for the most part except for the 'expertise' comment unless you mean the boxer engine. I don't see why the common perception is that Toyota, who built the LFA, Le Mans and Formula One cars, knows less about making a sports car than Subaru. Mind boggling...

It might be due to a variety of things. Personel availability issues, those engineers and techs might've left the company or have no interest in the project etc. I
Watched the Toyota ft86 PowerPoint design presentations and all the Toyota and Subaru chief engineer interviews and the sense I got from those also made me see the Toyota didn't have much to bring to the table past conceptual and since preliminary design.

Not simply saying that Toyota didn't have the experts in house but for some reason they didn't have them for this project. It could be those engineers have much higher charge rates or pay grades than they can budget towards ft86 or they just moved on or they didn't have jurisdiction over detailed design at all.

Also might simply be along the lines of the analogy of the best director for a specific movie. James Cameron could make the best Avatar or Titanic but he might not have made a good of a Dark Knight as Chris Nolan and vice versa.

The reasons are probably complicated and a combination of everything.

But as far as future of the ft86, Toyota can't continue to produce them without Subaru. Last I know Subaru and them are still fighting over next Gen. Toyota wants to Mini-monetize it and Subaru wants it to keep the rigidity and NA aspects. There's pros and cons to both.

I wouldn't mind an improvement over the power to weight ratio though. The frs and brz came in overweight to its design specs. So I rather see P/W improved thru weight reduction than HP (bigger engine, boosting, etc).

To those who bought the car already sorry but I want significant improvements soon and not later just to make you guys feel better. You consciously sacrificed by getting the car immediately and the rest of us have to wait patiently drooling.

[a2cpc]

I would have sworn I heard/read that Toyota had to show Subaru a working concept car before Subaru totally signed on.

[Stigmaru]

Originally Posted by a2cpc

I would have sworn I heard/read that Toyota had to show Subaru a working concept car before Subaru totally signed on.

All the concept and prototypes were on Subaru frames. There was a photo of the entire prototype lineup. But Subaru indeed never wanted to do the car. It's pretty much the black sheep in their family still and most wrx owners still disapprove of the brz. I know Toyota did alot of Scaled models to get the look they wanted. In that regard I don't think Subaru had any influence over the styling of everything you can see which I'm glad of cuz Subaru styling has really been getting worse since 2006.

You can pretty much see what the car means to each respective company by the name. BRZ vs GT86

The gt86 is the car that will make Toyota relevant again to car enthusiasts.

The BRZ is the best car Subaru can make using a rwd and boxer configuration.

These will dictate future as1 decisions.

[Levi]

Originally Posted by AeroWRX

All the concept and prototypes were on Subaru frames. There was a photo of the entire prototype lineup. But Subaru indeed never wanted to do the car. It's pretty much the black sheep in their family still and most wrx owners still disapprove of the brz. I know Toyota did alot of Scaled models to get the look they wanted. In that regard I don't think Subaru had any influence over the styling of everything you can see which I'm glad of cuz Subaru styling has really been getting worse since 2006.

You can pretty much see what the car means to each respective company by the name. BRZ vs GT86

The gt86 is the car that will make Toyota relevant again to car enthusiasts.

The BRZ is the best car Subaru can make using a rwd and boxer configuration.

These will dictate future as1 decisions.

BRZ is maybe the black sheep, but the new WRX is just crap, nothing to do with previous generations.

[Mr.]

I got 10 more HP! and I still get to work at same time every mon - fri.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by AeroWRX

In that regard I don't think Subaru had any influence over the styling of everything you can see which I'm glad of cuz Subaru styling has really been getting worse since 2006.

Most people tend to forget that before the first generations Legacy and Impreza, Subaru made some pretty ugly cars. In that sense, I guess they just went back to their roots (not just the ugly styling but even the dam CVT).

Without the BRZ, the Subaru showroom will end up being an eyesore like the modern day Acura.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by Suberman

That Tokyo show Lexus coupe with hybrid drivetrain looked to me like a development off this platform. Hybrid would be another sensible torque booster but tricky to integrate with a manual transmission. There's plenty of room under the bell housing shield for addition of hybrid drive. Most effective would be hybrid added to the automatic plus two more gears.

This will be a remake of the old Soarer which had always been their most technologically advanced GT car. It seems as if Toyota wants to restore much of their 80's line-up. Exciting times!

[protpibe]

I've worked with Lexus for a while and have cultivated some pretty good contacts.

With that out of the way, I just want to mention that if you mean the Lexus LF-LC as the "Lexus coupe with Hybrid drivetrain" then I hate to ruin the party by saying that is not a beefed up GT86. Not even in the slightest. It's actually going to be more LFA than anything else. If you meant the Lexus RC, then that is a IS coupe 100%. It will be released as a Gas V6, and also an 8-speed V8 RC-F variant. The F Version will have the same drivetrain as the current IS-F. Mass market ybrid RWD luxury cars are not big sellers, so I wouldn't expect any. The only reason the LF-LC is being made is to show that they can. It's been given the green light for production.

[a2cpc]

Originally Posted by AeroWRX

All the concept and prototypes were on Subaru frames.

Although they were built on Subaru frames(and engines), I think that those frames(and engines) were acquired by Toyota with the purpose of building a working prototype...which Toyota did.

[krayzie]

Actually I've read somewhere that those Toyota built prototypes pissed off the engineers at Subaru so much that Subaru finally came on-board to prove their competence. But it really sounds like some PR BS storyline to me.

I think it was probably more like Subaru figured out how this would be a great chance to save money on some Toyota paid for R&D that could be applicable on their new gen of cars.

[Trojan_SC]

Originally Posted by krayzie

I think it was probably more like Subaru figured out how this would be a great chance to save money on some Toyota paid for R&D that could be applicable on their new gen of cars.

Of course this was a "Tit-for-tat" thing. Why else would they make a car they didn't really want to make in the first place? Toyota got Subaru's resources to build the car (factory, manpower), and Subaru got Toyota's DI technology at their disposal to use for future vehicles (Forester for example)