Joining the NASA

[cjsporl1996]

Originally Posted by bukit

Both NASA and SCCA require roll cages to go W2W racing. Recommend you buy a car that is already prepared if plan to go W2W. You'll save money in the long run.

I'll put a roll cage in the Monte then. Thanks for the info.

[rice_classic]

If you can't afford to come home from the track without your car, you cannot afford to race.

For myself, I go one step further...

If I cannot afford to ball up my car and then purchase another one like it on the drive home, then I cannot afford to race.

So, when you decide you want to compete W2W, then this is a pretty typical recommendation of the order you may want to proceed in:

A) Determine first how much you can spend per year racing, not including the cost of the car. Racing a cheap car (slower car) is roughly $1k/weekend to race (mid-90's Hondas, Spec miata, ITA, PTE/PTD etc). Racing something like an STI, BMW, Vette or anything with FI will be 3 to 10 times as much per weekend to race. I'm not talking Time Trials, I'm talking proper w2w where 20-70 cars are headed into Turn 1 at the same time. So if you can afford to drop $10-15k/year simply to run the car then you need to consider Spec Miata, Honda Challenge, PTE/PTD and expect to run mid pack unless you're really good. If you can afford to spend $25-50k then you can play with faster toys. If your budget to race is over 100k/year then all I can say is... can I stay in your motorhome?

B) Determine what classes can be raced in with your pre-determined racing budget. Narrow it down to 1-3 classes that are well subscribed to and start studying the rules of each of them and talking with the drivers. Some guys like "creative" series like Performance Touring, while others like Spec series where all the cars are identical. Ask around why and make your own decision. Some cars can class in both so you can race in more than one class. PTE and Spec Miata for example.

C) Now that you've found a class, assuming it's not a Spec class, then narrow down competitive and/or affordable cars to race. Consider racing something that you have prior knowledge of so you can do much of the work, unless you have a big budget then race whatever want. But if a smaller budget guy, running a car with plenty of aftermarket parts and spare body panels is a pretty wise idea. Part of the reason Hondas and Miatas are so popular, there's lots of them and parts and body panels are cheap and working on them and tuning them is easy.

Consider reading this thread "Costs of Racing":
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...ghlight=racing


Good luck, have fun at the track!

[bukit]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

If you can't afford to come home from the track without your car, you cannot afford to race.

For myself, I go one step further...

If I cannot afford to ball up my car and then purchase another one like it on the drive home, then I cannot afford to race.

So, when you decide you want to compete W2W, then this is a pretty typical recommendation of the order you may want to proceed in:

A) Determine first how much you can spend per year racing, not including the cost of the car. Racing a cheap car (slower car) is roughly $1k/weekend to race (mid-90's Hondas, Spec miata, ITA, PTE/PTD etc). Racing something like an STI, BMW, Vette or anything with FI will be 3 to 10 times as much per weekend to race. I'm not talking Time Trials, I'm talking proper w2w where 20-70 cars are headed into Turn 1 at the same time. So if you can afford to drop $10-15k/year simply to run the car then you need to consider Spec Miata, Honda Challenge, PTE/PTD and expect to run mid pack unless you're really good. If you can afford to spend $25-50k then you can play with faster toys. If your budget to race is over 100k/year then all I can say is... can I stay in your motorhome?

B) Determine what classes can be raced in with your pre-determined racing budget. Narrow it down to 1-3 classes that are well subscribed to and start studying the rules of each of them and talking with the drivers. Some guys like "creative" series like Performance Touring, while others like Spec series where all the cars are identical. Ask around why and make your own decision. Some cars can class in both so you can race in more than one class. PTE and Spec Miata for example.

C) Now that you've found a class, assuming it's not a Spec class, then narrow down competitive and/or affordable cars to race. Consider racing something that you have prior knowledge of so you can do much of the work, unless you have a big budget then race whatever want. But if a smaller budget guy, running a car with plenty of aftermarket parts and spare body panels is a pretty wise idea. Part of the reason Hondas and Miatas are so popular, there's lots of them and parts and body panels are cheap and working on them and tuning them is easy.

Consider reading this thread "Costs of Racing":
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...ghlight=racing


Good luck, have fun at the track!

I couldn't agree more. The OP mentions that his Monte Carlo is a hybrid between a road race car, drag car and show car. There's no such thing as a hybrid race car. I've know a few racers that wax their cars but they're certainly not show cars. You will get tire rubber on car at the track even in HDPE. My Time Trials car was covered in it and its not easy to remove. You really need to pick where you want to be and work back from that. The Monte Carlo could probably class in NASA American Iron. I've never seen one in that class and I'm not sure it would be competitive against the Mustangs and Camaros.

[mav1178]

Before one talks about racing cars and what budgets and whatnot... you should get track days and experience first before getting a license.

Many of the amateur racers out there have as many years racing experience as you have been alive, and it's not something you just sign up for and jump into.

If you aren't prepared to write off your car as a total loss (assuming it burns crisp to the ground), you shouldn't be doing wheel-to-wheel racing.

-alex

[cjsporl1996]

Your right about their is no such thing as a hybrid race car because a race car is simply a race car and nothing else. What I meant by a hybrid car is that it is a car I have taken to car shows and won many awards. It is a car the handles very well for its original design and can take the abuse of the track if I wanted. It also has the power to be a drag car. Although it may not be the best in any of those 3 things it is certainly able to hold its own and that is something I wanted in that car.

[cjsporl1996]

Since I do not have the funds or feel like wrecking my cars would the NASA time trials be something for me? My understanding is that it is not a wheel to wheel event.

[s2d4]

autocross?

[bkblitzed]

have you thought about time attack?

[cjsporl1996]

Originally Posted by bkblitzed

have you thought about time attack?

Yea that is what I was talking about.

[ncmx5]

Just go karting.. Its alot cheaper, way more intense and will make you a better driver all around.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by ncmx5

Just go karting.. Its alot cheaper, way more intense and will make you a better driver all around.

Karting is pretty awesome. You can even do wheel to wheel racing for a fraction of the cost (and risk) of even the slowest, cheapest classes in scca/nasa. 125cc shifters are unbelievably fast too - they're easily the fastest things around a track that I've ever driven. They corner amazingly, the brakes are unbelievable, and the acceleration when you are in the power band will take your breath away.

[bukit]

Originally Posted by cjsporl1996

Since I do not have the funds or feel like wrecking my cars would the NASA time trials be something for me? My understanding is that it is not a wheel to wheel event.

Wrecks happen in time trials as well. While truly not W2W there are multiple cars on the track, at least in NASA SE, and there is potential for impact. In TT there is more potential IMO for off track excursions since you drive at the limit and push the envelope for the fastest lap time in your class.

[phastafrican]

Originally Posted by bukit

Wrecks happen in time trials as well. While truly not W2W there are multiple cars on the track, at least in NASA SE, and there is potential for impact. In TT there is more potential IMO for off track excursions since you drive at the limit and push the envelope for the fastest lap time in your class.

Whether its TT or W2W, you have to be mentally committed to walking away from the car from an incident. There are 2 types of drivers on any given racetrack, those who have wrecked, and those who are yet to wreck.Being prepared to deal with the worst is the first step to putting your car on any racetrack.
In 5 years of going to the racetrack, you learn that it doesn't matter whether its DE/TT/w2w, cars get totalled.
There's a lot of advice and caution being given here.
1) karting - best bang for buck in getting started in motorsports
2) autocross - learn great car control in a safe open space
3) HPDE - I recommend joining NASA's volunteer program. Earn credits to drive on track after 2 weekends of working. You'll get the opportunity to meet all the guys you would potentially be racing and ask them all the questions you can (classes, cost, car counts) and most important make friends who can help and guide you.

I'll add #4 and #5 - get a simulator. Racing is expensive, for that 10k/yr budget I have, I maximize it by practicing on trying things out on a sim so that the time on track is spent executing.
#5 - find a chump car or lemons race to arrive and drive. You'll gain half a season worth of experience after a proper enduro.

Most people with some talent who show up and run every DE session for an entire season ~10 events, can get a racing license in a year. In NASA-SE, we recommend about 30 track days before applying for a racing license.
So if you add karting, and a sim...you'll be doing yourself a big favor.

This racing thing we do is a hobby, an expensive one, but also very enjoyable once you figure out how to do it within your budget. Go over the cost of racing thread once again and be realistic with yourself. Can I afford this with car A or B. It might make even more sense to sell one car and get a craigslist miata for 2k that you can ball up and not think twice about dragging it to the scrap yard after pulling any useful parts. Then after a year or so, buy a completed car as opposed to building one. Unless you own a shop and have lots of resources, its not cost effective.

Finally, I'll say don't play with safety. If you do find an event like global time attack to enter without needing a license or are competing in TT, get harness, head and neck restraint, etc. The car can always be replaced, you...not so much.

[mav1178]

Again, it's simple:

If you are ready to write off the entire car as a total loss, feel free to enter it into competitive events, time trial or otherwise.

If you are not, don't get neck-deep into stuff you have zero experience in and start off slow.

-alex