SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[Rexpelagi]

Originally Posted by torqdork

Let's assume an FR-S special edition appears next year, nearly a certainty, and it's a TRD equipped like those in many markets with upgraded springs, adjustable shocks, brakes, wheels, tires, 4:30 mechanical diff (?), chassis and firewall bracing, door stiffeners, intake, exhaust, seats and who knows what else. What class would it have the best chance in?

http://www.tune86.com/toyota-86-trd-...-parts-catalog

If we every actually saw something like that here it would probably start at $40-50k. TRD isn't exactly known for making cheap parts. Assuming that is correct I'd assume they would never bring it here. If that car did exist here my guess would be straight to SP, and probably not even CSP.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by JRTritsch

"G. On cars without the ability to turn off electronic stability control and/ or traction control (ESC/TC) from the manufacturer, modifications to defeat the ESC/TC are permitted. These modification are limited to altering the inputs to the ESC/TC processor (e.g., removing fuses, unplugging yaw or steering angle sensors, altering signals) and may serve no other purpose. Any codes or error lights resulting from ESC/ TC modifications are permitted."

What is the interpretation here - traction control is not "completely" defeatable...can we pull the fuse? Not that I think its major problem

do the peddle dance...

[torqdork]

Originally Posted by Rexpelagi

If we every actually saw something like that here it would probably start at $40-50k. TRD isn't exactly known for making cheap parts. Assuming that is correct I'd assume they would never bring it here. If that car did exist here my guess would be straight to SP, and probably not even CSP.

If I were a US product planner and assuming there won't be a power increase during the life cycle, I'd green light a TRD edition here. True it would cost more, but as we see with 10 Series the total package price is about a 50% discount to the parts content alone. Combined with the competitive segment, I doubt they'd get overly aggressive with pricing for a small run of maybe 1,000-1,500 units tops, but Monogram pricing should give a clue as to which direction they're taking the FR-S, economy or premium segment.

Still, I'm not sure about SP. With no power increase, weighing about the same as the base car and factory installation of all upgrades makes it a question mark for class, why I'm hopeful that if it does arrive it'll be allowed into a lower class.

[Sccabrz192]

Originally Posted by torqdork

If I were a US product planner and assuming there won't be a power increase during the life cycle, I'd green light a TRD edition here. True it would cost more, but as we see with 10 Series the total package price is about a 50% discount to the parts content alone. Combined with the competitive segment, I doubt they'd get overly aggressive with pricing for a small run of maybe 1,000-1,500 units tops, but Monogram pricing should give a clue as to which direction they're taking the FR-S, economy or premium segment.

Still, I'm not sure about SP. With no power increase, weighing about the same as the base car and factory installation of all upgrades makes it a question mark for class, why I'm hopeful that if it does arrive it'll be allowed into a lower class.

Depending on what all is included, The problem is validating to US market regs rarely make sense for very small volumes. Although the individual parts may add up to a nice package for us and a price that makes sense for them, small volume special editions designed for other markets which include significant changes can require lots of engineering investment, making it not worthwhile to export.

[Sccabrz192]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

I agree with Trevor that taking a C-Street car to a match tour at this point is essentially a waste. The new PAX numbers kind of killed my enthusiasm from this year, heading into 2014. I locally run in the PRO index class as well, so this is kind of a bummer.

I'm looking to try a staggered tire setup. Dunlop doesn't pay contingency, and I already have a free Rival that I won from the Wilmington tour, so I'm thinking 2 225/45/17 Rivals, and maybe 2 235/40/17 Dunlops. Anyone tried something stupid like this yet? I'm not even sure which end of the car I'd put each size, but I'm looking to try something different.

Brake pads is something I may be willing to change as well. I have no issues with the Stoptech pads that I've been running, but I'm looking for something that will keep me out of ICE ABS mode, and perhaps be a bit more predictable. Any advice here, or is it all in driving technique? I brake late and hard, and ICE mode has screwed my race results several times this year.

I personally don't think our car can run with a 370Z at a Pro Solo, but I really like the Wilmington site, so I may make the Wilmington Pro, but I'll definitely be at the tour as I prefer that format the most.

Admittedly solo always takes a backseat to road racing, but with the new Pax, it's kind of been thrown in the trunk as my 2014 priorities will be:
1: Road Racing the Neon at Waterford Hills
2. Rallycross in '92 Toyota MR2
3. Solo in FR-S/Solo in The Grape(FSP Neon)
4. Karting

Will not make the Toledo Pro due to rallyx. Peru Match tour is a big maybe, only because I like the local strip club there am I considering it.

Really bummed to hear you say that Sean but I completely understand your perspective, and share in it as well... unfortunately I don't occupy my time racing spec neons around WHRRI. So that leaves me biting the bullet and going ahead with it, even though it is likely futile.

If schedule allows I am thinking of doing the Wilmington match tour for giggles anyway since it is so early in the season.

[torqdork]

Originally Posted by Sccabrz192

Depending on what all is included, The problem is validating to US market regs rarely make sense for very small volumes. Although the individual parts may add up to a nice package for us and a price that makes sense for them, small volume special editions designed for other markets which include significant changes can require lots of engineering investment, making it not worthwhile to export.

That's the thing, no engineering investment is needed. Unlike the convertible and with the possible exception of the TRD seats w/o SAB's that could be omitted, the other changes aren't significant enough to affect US passenger or pedestrian safety, crashworthiness or emissions regs.

And we expect annual, limited special editions from Scion now. A TRD edition would make sense. After Monogram edition, there's nothing else cosmetic left to add so IMO it's time to focus on improving performance. A TRD special edition is a natural progression using off the shelf parts bin engineering.

TMS CEO Jim Lentz already said they're studying whether to move Scion branding toward the premium segment. That was encouraging to hear that they aren't pulling the plug although gives pause about a new pricing matrix. OTOH, it could help FR-S special edition resale, so I'm not complaining.

[xwd]

Originally Posted by torqdork

Let's assume an FR-S special edition appears next year, nearly a certainty, and it's a TRD equipped like those in many markets with upgraded springs, adjustable shocks, brakes, wheels, tires, 4:30 mechanical diff (?), chassis and firewall bracing, door stiffeners, intake, exhaust, seats and who knows what else. What class would it have the best chance in?

http://www.tune86.com/toyota-86-trd-...-parts-catalog

I don't think we will ever see such a car here, but recent history has showed special edition cars like that will get bumped into a class where they aren't competitive. Expect a souped up BRZ/FR-S to go into BS at least and they may bump it all the way up to AS. For instance the NISMO 370Z has always been in BS even though it's not really much faster than the normal version. The SCCA has made mistakes in the past with very low-run special edition cars and they aren't going to make the mistake again...

[mrazny]

Originally Posted by Sccabrz192

Really bummed to hear you say that Sean but I completely understand your perspective, and share in it as well... unfortunately I don't occupy my time racing spec neons around WHRRI. So that leaves me biting the bullet and going ahead with it, even though it is likely futile.

If schedule allows I am thinking of doing the Wilmington match tour for giggles anyway since it is so early in the season.

Just a bit of PAX and Match tour context...

If they schedule all of the Street Category together, it very much has a shot of filling an entire heat by itself. Which means getting Top 8 PAX for a heat only means doing well on PAX comparative to other Street cars, which all have the "unfair" off PAX (short of perhaps D-Street).

AKA, C-Street winner (when C has regularly made up the biggest chunk of RTR) will very rarely not make the Pro Shootout.

And since the Pro Shootout is done on Dial-in...


I'm just saying that on a case by case basis, C-Street is not as *@$%-ed over as you guys might think. Of course the less Street people come out to Match Tours, the less likely it is to have the arrangement I'm talking about. So it'll be partially a self-fulfilling prophesy.


I'd also say that with a fresh category, the more numbers appear at Tours the better the politics of this whole change simmers down.

[SeanRTR]

Originally Posted by mrazny

If they schedule all of the Street Category together, it very much has a shot of filling an entire heat by itself. Which means getting Top 8 PAX for a heat only means doing well on PAX comparative to other Street cars, which all have the "unfair" off PAX (short of perhaps D-Street).

We're still going to be waxed by D-Street in even a halfway well driven late model Audi TT, or 2.5L Subaru WRX, likely even on raw time....let alone the PAX.

[jprice130]

Here is an overview of how the Match Tours will work in 2014 on the SoloMatters website:

http://www.solomatters.com/2013/12/m...a-users-guide/

I think the changes are for the better and appear to be aimed at limiting the advantages that different prep-levels can have depending on course surface and the time-of-day each heat runs. It certainly makes the Match Tours a little more palatable for the Street class. I know "mrazny" hinted at the new format earlier, so I thought I'd provide an official link in case some of you had not seen it.

[Kido1986]

Updated the thread for most for the C Street rule changes. Haven't addressed the +1/-1" wheel allowance yet

[Sccabrz192]

Originally Posted by jprice130

Here is an overview of how the Match Tours will work in 2014 on the SoloMatters website:

http://www.solomatters.com/2013/12/m...a-users-guide/

I think the changes are for the better and appear to be aimed at limiting the advantages that different prep-levels can have depending on course surface and the time-of-day each heat runs. It certainly makes the Match Tours a little more palatable for the Street class. I know "mrazny" hinted at the new format earlier, so I thought I'd provide an official link in case some of you had not seen it.

Thanks, yea I had read through it but didn't come to the conclusion that all street classes would be in the same heat, as that was not typically done up until now. I think if that is the plan, then yea it may not be as futile as I mentioned before. A CS BRZ may still not be the best option, but it wouldn't necessarily be buried. At least an all-street heat is a more level playing field than competing against the more well-established classes and their respective indexes.

[dsgerbc]

Just glanced at the OP. How did you arrive at +41 offset wheels being legal? I think they are illegal. The 7mm change in offset exceeds the 1/4inch allowance. +42 is the lowest legal offset.

[Kido1986]

The newest Fastrack changed the wording from 1/4" (6.35mm) inch offset to 7mm offset. Look for the January FastTrack for this information