Drift-Office : KraftWerks Supercharger Kit ... TUNED!

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Drift-Office

The common variable here is that they're all FI @ 10PSI. I've already plotted that chart, and it would make me look rather TURBO centric. I'll consider it as part of my 'wrap-up' post for the year...

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

Ok so clearly my idea isn't getting much traction. I thought that anyone reading this would be aware that the turbo is going to do better. They are more efficient and there's no way to get around that. For me, it's the degree of difference that I'm wondering about. Without getting into the debate of turbo vs. supercharger...again... let me just say that I feel a supercharger setup would fit me better. But everything is a compromise, I'd just really like to know what compromises I'm making.

[RUNAMUK]

Originally Posted by gmsii

OICU-
1) though the system isn't loud, KW will be coming out with toothed idler and tensioner gears which should further quiet it down.
2) looking at the JR and KW graphs, i am guessing the JR equipped car had a header (eg the top end pulls 500rpm higher and boost pressures are lower). It would be nice to see the Digital Assassins car dyno'd with a header installed.
3) the upgrading to the C38 charger on the KW is a simple bolt-on. JR will require major redesign

Any ETA on when the skunk2 Header and oil cooler kit are coming? I want to get the whole package... Awesome results.

[CSG Mike]

Since nobody else will do it... I will

2013 FRS / 6MT Transmission
Jackson Racing Supercharger Kit w/ 10 PSI Pulley
STOCK OEM Injectors
STOCK OEM Fuel Pump
OMNI 3 Bar Map Sensor
Drift-Office Custom ECUTEK SPEED DENSITY Calibration
HKS Equal Length Header
J2 Motoring Uncatted Front Pipe
Perrin 2.5 Inch Exhaust

vs

2013 FRS / 6MT Transmission
KraftWerks Supercharger Kit w/ 10 PSI Pulley
STOCK OEM Injectors
STOCK OEM Fuel Pump
OMNI 3 Bar Map Sensor
Drift-Office Custom ECUTEK SPEED DENSITY Calibration
Nameless 2.5 Inch Overpipe, Catted Front Pipe & Axle Back Exhaust


***these images are scaled for the hp/torque graph only. The AFR and Boost graphs are NOT TO SCALE***

**I do not have photoshop at work... so I had to crash course myself in GIMP, and there's no free transform, so I did the best I could given what I have for now**


Kraftwerks:


Jackson Racing:


Combined:

[cobrabyte]

Good deal. They both look to be putting out nearly identical numbers. I have to believe that the freer-flowing exhaust in the JR kit led to a more linear output without the odd blip around 4700 in the KW kit.

Can't wait to get mine installed and tuned so I can see whether a UEL header and catless exhaust yields similar results to the JR kit.

[Drift-Office]

Originally Posted by Drift-Office

I'll post it at a later date as a reference, simply because it's not really an apples-to-apples comparo.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Since nobody else will do it... I will

Nice. Jump the gun why don't we.



Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Drift-Office

Nice. Jump the gun why don't we.



Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

I meant people reading the thread, not you guys!

I also probably have more free time to do ghetto overlays, since it seems you guys are quite busy doing real work like tuning client cars

[Drift-Office]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I also probably have more free time to do ghetto overlays, since it seems you guys are quite busy doing real work like tuning client cars

Currently closed till the end of the year.

Originally Posted by ecko04

A base tune is just that, basic. It isn't optimal and needs to be dialed in. This is for every FI system on the market.

There is no One-Size-Fits-All

Yes, though I would say it isn't as optimal since it's NOT* a one-size-fits all. It runs, it drives and delivers power under boost - and as you've pointed out, not quite the same as an optimized tune for the specific vehicle.

Originally Posted by vgi

except it's not 'dialing in' a closed EcuTek tune, it's getting a completely new tune and loosing CARB approval in the process, unless I'm wrong about that?

I'll let @Jackson Racing chime in on this, but with strict certification standards, I doubt you're allowed to use anything but the calibration that was used in the approval process.

Originally Posted by Calum

I don't remember where, but I'm pretty sure Bob has stated that he isn't a fan of e-tuning. Maybe these issues are more related to Bob's preference to locally tune then take the chance that something might be off and have damage done before he can correct it.

Then again, that's how I read Bob's posts anyway, that a canned tune could work, it just wouldn't be anywhere near as smooth or powerful as a local tune.

You're right. I'm not a big fan of E-Tunes since there are lots of variables. You don't just plug a few numbers into a tune and expect it to work across the board. If you remember the once revered "Master Tuner" that tuned a single car, then sold and resold that calibration as a "tuned map" to everyone and we all know what happened thereafter...

We've dyno tuned over 54 GT86s since May 1st and I can safely say that no 2 stock cars are 100% alike. Some will take more timing than the next and consequently, some less. I prefer to see the variables thru our process on the dyno, in a controlled environment to prevent any mishaps. The other problem is that street logs are usually used as the data collection process in E-Tunes. None of them are going to be as consistent as doing pulls on a dyno. The more consistent the logs, the more accurate the calibration will be...

Not to pat ourselves on the back but I've been told repeatedly that we're seemingly the only ones that have done as many variations as we have and still have yet to experience any issues stemming from our calibrations. While alot of that comes from experience, a bulk of it is because it's done on a dyno and then street verified.

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Conclusion, HKS EL header opens up the top end.

Indeed. There aren't a whole lot of gains to be had when using the current line of UEL / EL headers in a SC environment. Here's one such other example that I've posted up before to support this : http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47101

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

[gmsii]

Originally Posted by cobrabyte

Good deal. They both look to be putting out nearly identical numbers. I have to believe that the freer-flowing exhaust in the JR kit led to a more linear output without the odd blip around 4700 in the KW kit.

Can't wait to get mine installed and tuned so I can see whether a UEL header and catless exhaust yields similar results to the JR kit.

Based on what we've seen dyno testing different configurations....
If DA's car had a free flowing header and no catalytic convertors, it would make significantly more peak power (about +20hp at 7000rpm) with the power coming in linearly from about 4000 rpm, and it would be making about 1psi less boost. Go figure.

[OICU812]

Man these threads make me debate whether to bother with a aftermarket header or not! Hmmmm...

[Calum]

^^ That.

And there's only one header in development that is supposed to be made to work with a supercharged motor and I fear that is going to be a blatant 'compromise' between NA and SC.

Bill has posted his preference for the PPE header with the Innovate kit. I'd like to see how that fares with either of these kits.

[ichitaka05]

Thanks Bob for this thread. It's interesting to see all the KW SC kit pics, vid & dyno. DO is one of the shop, I can trust my baby without worrying bout some thing gonna go wrong.

[vgi]

@gmsii, @KraftWerks

guys, maybe you did not see my question or were not willing to post in thread with topic on jackson racing SC risking to be banned by the mods but i think it would be beneficial for folks looking to buy your kit to get more info on canned tune you provide with your SC kit. my original post and reasons for the question is here:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=96
and jackson racing were pretty fast to reply.
cheers.

[gmsii]

Originally Posted by vgi

@gmsii, @KraftWerks

guys, maybe you did not see my question or were not willing to post in thread with topic on jackson racing SC risking to be banned by the mods but i think it would be beneficial for folks looking to buy your kit to get more info on canned tune you provide with your SC kit. my original post and reasons for the question is here:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=96
and jackson racing were pretty fast to reply.
cheers.

KW uses a SD tune.

[vgi]

Originally Posted by gmsii

KW uses a SD tune.

thanks, not as detailed as JR but I guess folks can make up their mind based on what Drift-Office posted about SD tunes.