ICE, ICE, ICE

[Suberman]

http://www.auto123.com/en/news/7-imp...e?artid=160656

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by Turkish

This thread went sideways in a hurry...

Not if you fit winter tires.

[Suberman]

http://www.humboldtjournal.ca/articl...1/-1/HUMBOLDT/

[Turkish]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Not if you fit winter tires.

[Suberman]

http://www.john-clark.co.uk/winter-tyres/

[Suberman]

http://ralphhosier.wordpress.com/201...res-the-truth/

Ok I'm done for now.

Still waiting for the proof that summer tires outperform winter tires below 7C.

[BRZfan]

Drive carefully, everyone. Do the research to get the best tires for the weather conditions and your driving abilities/experience. Keep in mind that rear-wheel-drive cars perform differently than front-wheel-drive and all-wheel-drive/4WD whether on ICE or not. Even the best tires for the conditions intended is not a guarantee against irresponsible or careless driving.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by Suberman

The know it alls posting about the superiority of summer tires on bare roads are ignorant of driving on cold roads.

They think cold means freezing cold.

At minus 20C your summer tires won't stop the car at all on bare and dry pavement. In fact the pavement will actually destroy the tread it becomes so brittle.

Until temperatures reach about 7C performance winter tires will outperform summer tires everywhere. As the temperature drops the delta between summer and winter widens until the summer tires are completely useless at around minus 20C.

At minus 40 C winter tires develop more grip than all season tires do at plus 4C.

MORE grip at 36 degrees COLDER.

Quit spamming the thread with random links.
You seem incapable of separating facts from marketing. Show me an actual TEST, not a manufacturer advert.

There are very few tests of the supposedly "known fact" of winter tires being better in the dry. Should be very easy to prove, should it?

I will repeat my two favorite tests:
Evo's
Read the whole thing before you dismiss it. This is Evo, they don't do stupid tests of dry cold handling in warm weather.
Money quote:

As expected, the Continental summer tyre is fastest on the dry handling circuit and in dry braking.

Number two: C&D piece. For all relevant purposes their A/S UHP is like a summer tire, with bare minimum for winter traction. Summer tire would be better than that, but just a hair.

Anyway, dry braking 60-0mph, 23F:
UHP A/S (Pilot Sport A/S) 128FT
Regular A/S (HX MXM4) A/S 130FT
Perf.Winter (Pilot Alpin PA3) 141FT
I&S (Xi2) 158FT.

You can get hell-bent over wether Pilot Sport A/S are really summer tires or not, but you CANNOT deny that winter tires SUCK in the dry, and at temps below freezing are STILL WAY BEHIND A/S and summer tires in the dry. The "7C" notion is a complete lie, and deceptive marketing. Do not drive on your winter tires when temps are above freezing, you're giving up grip FOR NOTHING.
Perf.Winter:

And I think I should add this to every post on the subject: I do not advocate driving on summer tires in the winter, all I'm saying is that winter tires SUCK in the dry, and one should drive on them accordingly.



Also, quit post-whoring and clean the fark up after yourself.

[Akari]

I got bored and decided to do a personal cold, dry tire test with my STi. Michelin Pilot Super Sports in -4C were still grippy enough to throw my friend into his locked seatbelt and have him scared shitless. My Hankook W409 iPikes(non-studded) on the other hand just had me struggling to keep control of the front end with a much, much longer stopping distance. Soft sidewalls + snow tread will never work exceptionally well on dry pavement.

I run snow tires 24/7 in the winter on my STi mostly because I always get caught out in a snowstorm and like to push it in the mountains. Getting caught in any amount of snow or ice on Pilot Super Sports is scary, even with AWD.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by Akari

Soft sidewalls + snow tread will never work exceptionally well on dry pavement.

And that's the point.
It is *theoretically* possible to take, say, Pilot Super Sports, and to tweak the compound a bit toward colder operating temps *but keep the thread/sidewall the same*, and it will give *a hair* more grip at 7C and below than regular PSS. But *nobody produces such a tire*.

[Akari]

Well yeah, there is almost no market for a tire like that. People want winter tires to be able to handle snow and ice.

I must say the PSS had way more traction than any Ultra High Performance All Season I've used at that temperature. I'm really curious if I can keep them up to temperature on a below freezing track day or not.

[Meehow86]

This thread got weird quickly.

[Kevstra]

In the middle of the winter, I'm more concerned about my ice/snow/wet stopping power than dry.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

You can get hell-bent over wether Pilot Sport A/S are really summer tires or not, but you CANNOT deny that winter tires SUCK in the dry, and at temps below freezing are STILL WAY BEHIND A/S and summer tires in the dry. The "7C" notion is a complete lie, and deceptive marketing.

The assertion appears to be that the summer performance tire (3-season tire) will out-brake and out-corner the winter performance tire on clear, dry roads at 40° F and even below freezing.

This assertion comports with my (limited) experience. I don't run conclusive A-B comparison tests, but my experience is that when I change to my winter performance tires, I need to back up my braking points significantly on clear, dry roads lest I arrive at my corner entry faster than I would like.

You declare that the "7C notion is a complete lie."

Okay.

At what temperature would one see the performance winter tire out-perform the performance summer tire on clear, dry roads? Any idea?

I would be interested in reading, but I've been unable to find, any tests showing the differences as the temperature progressively drops.


To be fair, the tire makers' tests do appear to show that the WET ROAD braking performance of a performance winter tire will be superior to the summer performance tire as the temperatures drop below 7 degrees Celsius (45 deg F).

Do not drive on your winter tires when temps are above freezing, you're giving up grip FOR NOTHING.

Hmm…

I'm willing to adjust tire pressures daily to accommodate wide, day-to-day temperature fluctuations, especially in the spring and the fall. But… change my WHEELS daily, as the probability of wet or snowy roads changes from day to day here in the Midwest USA?

Nah. I'm too lazy to do that.