Good handling at 50-60mm drop?

[diss7]

So I finally put my RSR Black-I coilovers in today, and I'm stoked and gutted at the same time. They are brillant just puttering around. Comfortable as, quiet, car doesn't ride like its a slammed piece of shit. Oh, and it looks fantastic at 50mm f 55mm r drop. I may evem go 5 or 10mm more.

What makes me disappoint, is how badly the car now handles when given a workout. Taking it around roads I'm can really hammer on, it's noticeably worse. I do have some parts coming to correct what I am hoping is causing these problems, but I'm really surprised at how different the car is behaving.

Is it possible to correct what riding at this height causes?

To quote myself from the post I left in the RSR review thread...

Originally Posted by diss7

So, I've just been for a big drive around my favourite roads, and some regular roads and motorways.

On the regular "a to b" roads, daily driving, motorways, these coilovers are fantastic. I softened the front and rear to halfway, and it drives more comfortably than stock, I shit you not. It doesn't ride like a slammed car at all.

Now once I got too my favourite roads, which would be best described as Tarmac rally stages (if you've ever driven around Banks peninsula/Port Hills near Christchurch, you'll understand) my elation turned to disappointment. Braking is improved as the car remains flatter. But in the bends, it is much disappoint.

What I should add at this point, is that I haven't had an alignment yet. I sense that my rear has too much toe in, and the front doesn't have enough toe out. Now I'll also add, and I stress this point, that I don't believe the coilovers are the issue here, I believe it's the height I have them set to. Never the less I want to share my impressions.

Initial turn in seems better and worse at the same time. I feel as if I am getting some push understeer, however I believe this will be front toe related. Beyond inital turn in, I can feel the front benefiting from the extra front camber, but what becomes immediately apparent at this point is how much body roll has increased. It is significant.

Before I put these in, I did preempt some of these issues, so already have parts on order to counter these issues. These being Whiteline tie rod ends/roll centre adjusters, front and rear sway bars and rear toe arms.

The point I want to get across is that if you get these coilovers (or indeed any others than are set to 50mm lower or more) you will need other parts if you want to still drive the car like a sports car, without having to raise it when you want to do so.

Exactly what you need, I don't know. But I think the parts I have coming are hopefully what is needed.

I'm going to start a thread now about this, as I'd like to get some convo going about creating a good suspension model at this height, or whether it's even possible.

I'll reiterate, I have no issue with these coilovers, I think they're fantastic. I think my car looks fantastic at the height too. I just don't like the fact that it handles worse now. I'm not going to track it as it is, I know I've lost a good 3 seconds a lap at a guess.

I'm not trying to have the best or fastest car, I'm prepared to lose some handling from an optimal setup to run this height, but I'd like that to be only a small concession, not the massive concession I feel this setup has made.

[s2d4]

Get your alignment sorted.

[wparsons]

At that much of a drop you're going to need to fix the roll centers, sway bars and an alignment aren't going to cut it.

What spring rates do you have on the coilovers? The push could also be from a bad balance of front to rear rates. This you can balance with adjustable sway bars (soften front, stiffen rear).

[djdnz]

@robispec might be able to help, he is running very low. You will need many things to fix what you have done to the handling.

[diss7]

Originally Posted by wparsons

At that much of a drop you're going to need to fix the roll centers, sway bars and an alignment aren't going to cut it.

What spring rates do you have on the coilovers? The push could also be from a bad balance of front to rear rates. This you can balance with adjustable sway bars (soften front, stiffen rear).

I have front roll centre adjusters coming from whiteline, but I'm not sure what could be done to correct the rear roll centre.

I was always going to get an alignment, my buddy has an alignment shop, he just wasn't open yesterday.

Spring rates are 7kg front and rear.

[u/Josh]

I would be very interested in hearing your impression of the roll center adjusters if you install those without making any other changes.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by diss7

I have front roll centre adjusters coming from whiteline, but I'm not sure what could be done to correct the rear roll centre.

I was always going to get an alignment, my buddy has an alignment shop, he just wasn't open yesterday.

My point was, until you get it done, no point reviewing the feel of the setup.

You may be able to fab up the spacer type RCA to do the job for the rear.

[diss7]

Originally Posted by s2d4

My point was, until you get it done, no point reviewing the feel of the setup.

You may be able to fab up the spacer type RCA to do the job for the rear.

I hear what you're saying, and without sounded like a colossal ass hat, I can feel what an alignment will/won't affect; hence my comments about turn in probably being toe related. It's the roll that I'm really surprised about, that an alignment will har no affect on.

[asphaltkyle]

Raise the car.

[diss7]

Helpful.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Stiffer springs and/or geometry correction. Or raise the car

It is noticeable when you go that low (2 inches) that you're giving up grip IMO.

- Andy

[RYU]

The title of this thread implies an oxymoron.

Even record breaking Time Attack 86s require suspension travel

[diss7]

Originally Posted by RYU

The title of this thread implies an oxymoron.

Even record breaking Time Attack 86s require suspension travel

What makes you think I don't have suspension travel?

Because I do, and I'm yet to bottom the suspension out.

I'm thinking to correct the geometry, the whiteline roll centre adjuster at the front should help. From what I can tell, to fix the rear winding the coilover out to raise the rear arm geometry 20-25mm, then using a stepped LCA to lift the hub to achieve what looks like a 55mm drop, but with the rear arms at the same geometry as if the rear was lowered 30mm.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by diss7

What makes you think I don't have suspension travel?

Because I do, and I'm yet to bottom the suspension out.

I'm thinking to correct the geometry, the whiteline roll centre adjuster at the front should help. From what I can tell, to fix the rear winding the coilover out to raise the rear arm geometry 20-25mm, then using a stepped LCA to lift the hub to achieve what looks like a 55mm drop, but with the rear arms at the same geometry as if the rear was lowered 30mm.

Adjust the roll center. As long as you have sufficient stroke, you just need RCA and alignment.