Winter Driving?

[tanner]

Buddy had a 350Z a few years ago and even with proper winter tires, it was still a handful to drive in the snow and it would still struggle even with traction/stability control turned on. Not so much of an issue with the 335 coupe he had but is for others who insist on driving on snow with all seasons.

At any rate, for us folks in Southern Ontario, we should be getting a good blast of snow this weekend or next week. I can't wait to try out the BRZ in the snow with the WS70 tires.

Forecast from yesterday and these forecasts change by the minute....

[kask2_6.0]

Originally Posted by tiz22

Just experienced my first drive in some decent snow/slush/ice conditions and I gotta say - I'm very impressed.

No car this light with RWD will ever be absolutely perfect in the snow but I was expecting a lot worse...

I have Michelin Xice i3s installed on my stock rims and I was easily going around turns, changing lanes etc. in slippery conditions.

for the ultimate test - took it for a quick rip in an empty parking lot and couldn't believe how much control I had! I was drifting around light poles as if I were in an RC car

I don't know what @Suberman 's beef is but I couldn't find much to complain about with this car in winter driving...Maybe time will tell but it has definitely exceeded my expectations on first impressions

Definitely exceeded my expectations in snow as well. Have Blizzak WS60's and it handles fantastic in snow. Turns and stops very well and is very predictable. So much fun!

On the other hand I got caught in the snow two weeks ago with my 255 Falken 615k's and it was absolutely awful! But that's to be expected with any extreme performance summer tire with little to no sipes.

Originally Posted by Suberman

My "beef" is only that this car could have been so much better with more understeer built in. Faster in the wet, the snow AND the dry.

I have no trouble driving this car I just know how it could be made better. What I'm curious to know is exactly what makes this car so twitchy, and then fix it.

The weight distribution is nearly 50/50. The ground clearance is nearly 6 inches. The front wheels have positive camber and the rear wheels have negative camber. Still the car oversteers too easily.

You should have NEGATIVE camber on both front and rear. Adding more negative camber helps reduce the understeer. If your car is relatively stock camber bolts are the cheapest and pretty effective way of doing this. Proper alignment will make a world of difference.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Suberman

I have awd. I also have fwd. I can choose which to drive and compare them back to back. Anyone who thinks the BRZ handles well doesn't understand handling. As one speechless poster said: the only way Subaru could get away with marketing these cars to John Q. Public is with traction and stability control.

My point exactly.

i sold my 01 Impreza before moving on to the FRS

both slide around like soap when the snow really hits, the only differnce is that the FRS holds a bigger angle



so random question for you, seeing as how you're a handling expert, if i check the Calgary autocross/time attack boards you should be well known by the community... right?

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by Suberman

The car is undrivable in the wet or snow or on ice. It ought not to be.

This made me LOL just now. If this is the case, I should have wrecked 5 or 6 times by now. Even if you are referring to cold wet, you are obviously quite wrong.

Also, even with 40+ years of driving experience (as you have claimed elsewhere), you are the only person making these claims. There are other people on this board who are more experienced and have driven longer, and I have yet to see them, let alone anyone agree with you.

Accuse us of drinking the kool-aid, but the numbers don't lie. By those accounts its you, not the car.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Suberman

My "beef" is only that this car could have been so much better with more understeer built in. Faster in the wet, the snow AND the dry.

I have no trouble driving this car I just know how it could be made better. What I'm curious to know is exactly what makes this car so twitchy, and then fix it.

The weight distribution is nearly 50/50. The ground clearance is nearly 6 inches. The front wheels have positive camber and the rear wheels have negative camber. Still the car oversteers too easily.

This post right here sums up everything quite nicely... if you feel this car over steers too easily then you need high performance driving lessons. To people that actually know how to drive, it's still a bit too tight (balanced towards understeer) to be as fast as it's capable of. It's very easy to make the car understeer if you know what you're doing, just like it's easy to make it oversteer if you know what you're doing.

Making it understeer more is very simple to do though, throw on a stiffer front sway bar and don't touch anything else. If you're on a really tight budget, remove one rear sway bar end link.

I can guarantee you that the car will be measurably slower around a track with more understeer, regardless of conditions. Cars NEED to rotate to be fast around a track, not push wide and slide off course.

I'd hate to see what you think of an FR-S, which is balanced looser than the BRZ (just slightly, but still).

If anyone has issues with a car sliding out of control it's very simple, they're driving too fast for their abilities in the conditions.

[Suberman]

No I don't. I've already done that. For the last time, I am not talking about losing control. The last time I lost control of a car was 1987.

I can't help it if you can't see what I and other experts see.

I also don't think increasing the front roll rate is the answer to this particular problem.

Although that should increase understeer in steady state it may not cure the transient oversteer under sudden power applications in tight corners.

Also, increasing the front roll rate may actually cause winter handling to be worse.

It might be that reducing the rear roll bar rate might help.

I've driven an FRS. Like the BRZ it is a hoot to drive but, even dumber as a drivers car.

These cars are set up for kids so they can feel like they're really driving a sporstcar. I'm way past that. I expected better from professional automotive engineers and I hope sometime soon someone will make an aftermarket fix, but I'm not holding my breath.

You're pretty much alone in thinking more understeer would slow this car down.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by Suberman

No I don't. I've already done that. For the last time, I am not taking about losing control. The last time I lost control of a car was 1987.

I can't help it if you can't see what I and other experts see.

I also don't think increasing the front roll rate is the answer to this particular problem.

Although that should increase understeer in steady state it may not cure the transient oversteer under sudden power applications in tight corners.

Also, increasing the front roll rate may actually cause winter handling to be worse.

It might be that reducing the rear roll bar rate might help.

I've driven an FRS. Like the BRZ it is a hoot to drive but, even dumber as a drivers car.

These cars are set up for kids so they can feel like they're really driving a sporstcar. I'm way past that. I expected better from professional automotive engineers and I hope sometime soon someone will make an aftermarket fix, but I'm not holding my breath.

You're pretty much alone in thinking more understeer would slow this car down.

God please sell your f'ing car already so we don't have to read this complete bullshit.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

God please sell your f'ing car already so we don't have to read this complete bullshit.

Newsflash, you don't have to read anything you don't want to read.

But, keep reading. Eventually you might actually learn something useful.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Newsflash, you don't have to read anything you don't want to read.

But, keep reading. Eventually you might actually learn something useful.

It's a forum. I come on here to read (good and the bad), but listening to you whine about how shitty the car handles, tires, blah blah fucking blah, is just so annoying. Do you contribute in any other way, other than rub everyone the wrong way?

One thing you are right about, the more I keep reading I will learn something. Fortunately it won't be as a result of anything you post.

Again, sell your shitty car and move on. We'll all benefit in the end.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Suberman

I can't help it if you can't see what I and other experts see.

What other experts? Spend any time in the track/HDPE section or suspension section and you'll find that most real experts find they need more rotation to be properly quick on a track.

Originally Posted by Suberman

I also don't think increasing the front roll rate is the answer to this particular problem.

Although that should increase understeer in steady state it may not cure the transient oversteer under sudden power applications in tight corners.

Also, increasing the front roll rate may actually cause winter handling to be worse.

It might be that reducing the rear roll bar rate might help.

That's power oversteer, and is more related to your right foot than the rear suspension. If you don't find the car spins too easily except under power, keep your foot out of the throttle.

Originally Posted by Suberman

I've driven an FRS. Like the BRZ it is a hoot to drive but, even dumber as a drivers car.

These cars are set up for kids so they can feel like they're really driving a sporstcar. I'm way past that. I expected better from professional automotive engineers and I hope sometime soon someone will make an aftermarket fix, but I'm not holding my breath.

No, they're set up as a properly balanced sports car, not a dumbed down under steering car that makes people feel safe.

Originally Posted by Suberman

You're pretty much alone in thinking more understeer would slow this car down.

Again, spend some time in the HPDE/track or suspension section and you'll find that you're in the minority of people thinking it needs to rotate less to be faster. I'd actually challenge you to find one person that claims it would be faster with more off throttle understeer.

More understeer might make you feel safer, but ultimately it will be slower around a track with someone competent at the wheel.

[Suberman]

Power oversteer? On this car? Are you mad?

[mabviper]

Can the mods do something about this? This topic would actually be helpful to other ppl if so called experts just keep to themselves. Seriously Suberman, stop trolling. I think you're making up half of the responses in this thread.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Steve]

Originally Posted by mabviper

Can the mods do something about this? This topic would actually be helpful to other ppl if so called experts just keep to themselves. Seriously Suberman, stop trolling. I think you're making up half of the responses in this thread.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Actually the thread is informative until page 6 or when you see Suberman start picking the car apart because he can't drive it. At that point the thread just becomes purely entertainment, and its good.

EDIT: Sorry, he can drive the car, but only him and other experts can point out the design flaws that make the car undrivable in wet and winter conditions.

[Kazuya]

So I was speeding this weekend, lol ikr.

Anyways, car started shaking at 170/km, I was reading the tires before I bought em, they said max 190/km, is that why or did my brother eff my balancing/putting it on?

Experts with ph.d in cars plz