2015 Ford Mustang / Shelby GT350 Official - 5.2L FPC with 500+hp/400+ lb-ft

[Whitigir]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

Well, yeah. Nobody was claiming that though. Engines with higher displacement just naturally have more potential based on physics. But the V8 isn't blown stock, and the I4 is.

I'm going to pull some figures out of my ass here, forgive me, because we don't have any pricing figures. So let's just go on assumption.

Figure 25 grand for the I4T version of the Mustang. Figure 30 grand for the V8. I'm not sure where you got 50% less power though. Unofficial figures have been posted, and sit right now (testing is still being done) at 305-315 horsepower and 300-310 lb ft torque on the I4. That's about 25% less than the V8 currently.

Again, talking out of my ass, but figure a tune and bolt ons will put the I4 and V8 on equal footing power wise. Throw E85 at the turbo and it'll go even more. You're still under the base cost of the V8. If you want to dump thousands into it, that engine is already forged, which is why that diagram was so important to my post.

Sure we can compare the turbo V8 Mustang now. How much is a Hellion single turbo kit for the 5.0? Figure about 6-7 grand? So that puts us at 37ish thousand to be making a ton of power. It's definitely the way to go for people that want boatloads of power. I don't care to have a thousand horsepower though. I've owned a fast Mustang, so I've already experienced it.

You have all valid points there, except...expect the I4T to be as, or more expensive than the V6.

I don't know, but "there is no replacement for displacement." I rather go NA V8 instead of the I4T.

Words have it that the I4T can be as heavy, if not heavier than the V6 due to all the Liquid inter cooling, Integrated manifolds, and material. Extra coolings ...etc.

So, for the power output a little more than a V6, but with that level of complication ? I rather take any NA. If you want turbo, you can always Turbo it later with after market part.

Last thing though, the I4T diagram there look to be solid proof, built everything. If it is really what Ford said it to be, it will be very reliable, and Bullet Proof like an Already Built Evo X Internal Mivec....Which I seriously Doubt it...as how much trouble all of Ford Ecoboost Engine vehicles are out there presently

I don't know why, but as far as a consumer point of view, I think Ford has failed again...I would have no problem buying any Toyota...but would think twice...or more about any Ford.

The only Mustang I really like is the V8 mustang....that car is a freaking beast for the money.....

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by Whitigir

You have all valid points there, except...expect the I4T to be as, or more expensive than the V6.

Correct. And the current V6 starts at 22. So I started at 25. I think 3 grand is a fair premium over the base V6 to get the I4.

Originally Posted by Whitigir

Words have it that the I4T can be as heavy, if not heavier than the V6 due to all the Liquid inter cooling, Integrated manifolds, and material. Extra coolings ...etc.

So, for the power output a little more than a V6, but with that level of complication ? I rather take any NA. If you want turbo, you can always Turbo it later with after market part.

Not only better output than the V6, but a better power band and torque curve as well. It may be slightly heavier, but then you want to go on and compare it to adding aftermarket forced induction... which just adds that weight right back in.

Best thing though, sure it may be a bit more complicated, but it's also under factory warranty. I wouldn't be surprised if Ford released some staged performance packages as well that retain the warranty. They have for the Focus, so why wouldn't they for their bread and butter sports car?

Originally Posted by Whitigir

Last thing though, the I4T diagram there look to be solid proof, built everything. If it is really what Ford said it to be, it will be very reliable, and Bullet Proof like an Already Built Evo X Internal Mivec....Which I seriously Doubt it...as how much trouble all of Ford Ecoboost Engine vehicles are out there presently

Doubt it as much as you want. That image is attached to the Ford press release from yesterday. I bolded those bits for you and copied it over here.

Originally Posted by Ford

HORSEPOWER UNLEASHED – MOTIVATING THE ALL-NEW FORD MUSTANG

5.0-liter V8 anchors the all-new Ford Mustang lineup with power and torque fit for the iconic brand
New 2.3-liter EcoBoost® brings turbocharging to Mustang with exceptional power and torque and projected class-leading fuel efficiency
Manual transmissions provide smoother shifting, automatic transmissions feature steering-wheel-mounted paddle shifters
The all-new Ford Mustang offers a choice of engines available with either manual or automatic transmissions that make it a great all-around performer no matter how you mix and match.

Less is more, EcoBoost comes to Mustang
The new 2.3-liter EcoBoost engine brings turbocharging to the Mustang powertrain lineup. Designed to meet the needs of drivers looking for outstanding performance and projected best-in-class fuel efficiency, this EcoBoost engine has been developed specifically for Mustang. The intake manifold and turbocharger housing are optimized to provide better breathing and higher output in Mustang.

With a projected 305-plus horsepower and 300-plus lb.-ft. of torque, this EcoBoost engine fits the bill for a true Mustang powerplant.

"This EcoBoost engine delivers the healthy output that Mustang drivers expect regardless of the speed," said Scott Makowksi, EcoBoost powertrain engineering manager. "This EcoBoost engine might be small in displacement, but it delivers where a Mustang driver expects it with a broad, flat torque curve and great driveability under any conditions."

The newest member of Ford's global family of EcoBoost engines, the 2.3-liter continues to take advantage of state-of-the-art technologies including direct fuel injection, twin independent variable camshaft timing and turbocharging to produce big-engine power and torque with improved fuel efficiency.

This is the first Ford engine to utilize a low-inertia twin-scroll turbocharger that provides quicker boost response while enabling lower emissions and improved efficiency. The cylinder head features an integrated exhaust manifold that separates the inner and outer pairs of cylinders into each inlet passage to the turbo.

Keeping the exhaust pulses separated from the next cylinder in the firing order eliminates mixing losses and maximizes pulse energy to the turbine wheel. The result is quicker torque delivery when the driver needs it for passing maneuvers and similar performance to a twin-turbocharger configuration.

The separated exhaust ports also enable the exhaust valves to stay open longer for reduced pumping losses that improve specific fuel consumption by about 1 percent.

With more than 305 horsepower and 300 lb.-ft. of torque pumped out from such a small engine, in a car where drivers are more inclined to use it, ensuring durability was critical. Enhancements to the Mustang EcoBoost engine to withstand the added stresses include:

Forged-steel crankshaft
Piston-cooling jets
Steel piston ring carriers
Premium bearing materials
Upgraded valve seat materials
Forged-steel connecting rods
High-pressure die-cast aluminum cylinder block with ladder-frame bearing caps
Deep-sump, die-cast aluminum oil pan
The beating heart of a pony
No Ford Mustang engine lineup would be complete without a great V8 engine at its core. The 5.0-liter V8 powers into a new generation with a host of upgrades that enable it to breathe better, especially at higher engine speeds. Many of these changes are derived from the lessons learned in developing the special edition 2013 Mustang Boss 302.

Getting air into the cylinders and exhaust out is the key to generating more power and torque from any engine, and that has been the focus of development on the V8, which features:

Larger intake valves
Larger exhaust valves
Revised intake camshafts
Revised exhaust camshafts
Stiffer valve springs – ensures that the valves close completely at high rpm
New cylinder-head casting – revised ports that provide a straighter path to the valves for less-restrictive intake and exhaust flow; combustion chamber modifications accommodate larger valves
Sinter forged connecting rods – lighter and more durable for high-rpm operation
Redesigned piston tops – deeper cutouts clear the new larger valves
Rebalanced forged crankshaft – supports higher-rpm operation
These upgrades are projected to generate more than 420 horsepower and 390 lb.-ft. of torque.

A new intake manifold includes charge motion control valves to partially close off port flow at lower engine speeds. This increases the air charge tumble and swirl for improved air-fuel mixing. This results in better fuel economy, idle stability and lower emissions.

The variable camshaft timing on the intake side now has a greater range of adjustment available thanks to mid-lock phasers. This enables better optimized control of the valve timing over a broader range of engine speeds and loads for improved fuel economy and emissions

Transmissions
More than most drivers, Mustang owners like to take control and shift for themselves. Whether they select a fully manual gearbox or the updated automatic transmission, the experience will be better than in any previous pony.

The Getrag manual has a new shift linkage design for shorter throws and improved precision. The shift lever is now positioned closer to the driver and away from the cup-holders so the driver has a clear path for shifting.

Mustang blends outstanding all-around performance and everyday usability. Drivers who prefer to let the car handle the shifting during their daily work run, but still want to take control when the roads get twisty, will appreciate the new steering-wheel-mounted shift paddles with rev-matching downshifts that are now standard with the Select-Shift six-speed automatic transmission.

The automatic also features a redesigned case with cast-in ribs that help make it stiffer and reduce the weight. Internally clutches have been optimized and operating temperature has been increased to reduce friction. The output shaft is now supported by a ball-bearing that enables a top speed of 155 mph for Mustang GT.

With a choice of powertrains to match driving styles and lifestyles, the new Mustang has contemporary technology under the hood to match its modern design and remain quintessentially Mustang.

In the end, I agree that if money were unlimited I'd rather have the V8. Unfortunately it's not unlimited, and I just don't want to pay 30 grand for a car right now.

[thill]

While I have not driven the car or seen it in person, I am disappointed. I think Ford really had a chance to evolve the brand and make the car sleeker, more modern looking, and lighter. They did not. In many ways, I actually find the newer version (on the exterior) to be a letdown vs the current gen. In the end, it looks like a big, heavy car. When you sit in the cockpit and look out the windshield, you are going to see a big hood like you do in a Camaro or Challenger.

I am glad the live rear axle is gone and the Ecoboost engine sounds promising, but the rest of the car is very meh for me. Pretty much more of the same, which for Mustang people, will make them happy. But for those of us that thought the Mustang could be something new and special, I think Ford missed the opportunity.

[HeubergerMotors]

I actually adore the look!

[sofrsnsokleen]

Originally Posted by m.wood0213

Wow that's bad. Looks like a Taurus and the hood is very tall. Even if it sheds 400lbs it will still handle like crap.

its suspension is completely redesigned and now has irs. even when it didn't it would smoke literally any fr-s at any race. handling is nice but what good is it if theres not enough power to win a race with curves? now with the weight loss, new suspension, its gonna be a beast on the track and drag.

[sofrsnsokleen]

Originally Posted by thill

While I have not driven the car or seen it in person, I am disappointed. I think Ford really had a chance to evolve the brand and make the car sleeker, more modern looking, and lighter. They did not. In many ways, I actually find the newer version (on the exterior) to be a letdown vs the current gen. In the end, it looks like a big, heavy car. When you sit in the cockpit and look out the windshield, you are going to see a big hood like you do in a Camaro or Challenger.

I am glad the live rear axle is gone and the Ecoboost engine sounds promising, but the rest of the car is very meh for me. Pretty much more of the same, which for Mustang people, will make them happy. But for those of us that thought the Mustang could be something new and special, I think Ford missed the opportunity.

ford wasn't trying to completely reinvent the mustang, that would kill 50 yrs of heritage. They sought out to design a mustang that still fit in line with the lineage of all the previous models but be progressive towards the future. Of course its going to have a big long hood, and look muscular, it IS a muscle car. Its actually going to be the smallest muscle car on the market as well. If you want something smaller and compact, thats why they sell the focus st.

I hate how many car "enthusiasts" knock muscle cars. Is there no pride in our products any more?

I love the twins but to me the mustang gt has always been the everymans true sports car. Thanks to fast and furious franchise, everyone wants a 1000hp japanese car... wtf happened 'merica?

[ZetaVI]

I'm not sure how I feel about this just yet. I think I need to see it in person first but I do know that rear end is just awful.

[Dadhawk]

Good coverage from AmericanMuscle.com with lots of shots of the convertible.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dbi9hM-RWk"]EXCLUSIVE: 2015 Ford Mustang Reveal with AmericanMuscle.com - YouTube[/ame]

[M.I.A]

Originally Posted by ZetaVI

I'm not sure how I feel about this just yet. I think I need to see it in person first but I do know that rear end is just awful.

You will like it better than the full color bumper on this model

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

In the end, I agree that if money were unlimited I'd rather have the V8. Unfortunately it's not unlimited, and I just don't want to pay 30 grand for a car right now.

So you would rather pay ~$25k (it will not be as low as 25) then spend a few more thousand to void your warranty, all so you could be almost as fast as the proper V8?

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by chulooz

So you would rather pay ~$25k (it will not be as low as 25) then spend a few more thousand to void your warranty, all so you could be almost as fast as the proper V8?

A few thousand? Domestic tuning is generally a decent bit cheaper than import tuning in general. I'm betting a flash and maybe a couple of bolt ons will put you up to 400. If not, throw some E85 at it and you'll probably be good. But like I said, pulling numbers out of my ass. No real idea yet. we'll just have to wait and find out.

What source do you have that says it won't be as cheap as 25k? The V6 starts at 22 now, and I don't see prices going up quite that much.

And and, wait for Ford Racing to start putting out kits to up your power. Keep that factory warranty, if you so desire.

Don't get me wrong, I love the 5.0 V8. I love the sound, I love the power. But for the first time ever I'm not saying "V8 or nothing." I think the 2.3 is going to be stupidly popular with tons of modding potential and aftermarket.

[chulooz]

No one will argue it wont have potential. I doubt the v6 will stay at 22K. A flash and 'bolt ons' getting your 2.3l 400 is romantic, this isnt an understand german car. e85 is a whole different fuel, taking advantage of it with supporting mods will cost at least a couple grand... and if the v8 burned the same fuel it would be even more powerful. If you are going the Ford Racing route you are mostly certainly spending a few Gs. I just think that a 'stang without the v8 is like an rx* without the rotary.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by chulooz

No one will argue it wont have potential. I doubt the v6 will stay at 22K. A flash and 'bolt ons' getting your 2.3l 400 is romantic, this isnt an understand german car. e85 is a whole different fuel, taking advantage of it with supporting mods will cost at least a couple grand... and if the v8 burned the same fuel it would be even more powerful. If you are going the Ford Racing route you are mostly certainly spending a few Gs. I just think that a 'stang without the v8 is like an rx* without the rotary.

Everything I've heard points to a nearly $2K increase over outgoing model MSRP across all new model trims.

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by chulooz

No one will argue it wont have potential. I doubt the v6 will stay at 22K. A flash and 'bolt ons' getting your 2.3l 400 is romantic, this isnt an understand german car. e85 is a whole different fuel, taking advantage of it with supporting mods will cost at least a couple grand... and if the v8 burned the same fuel it would be even more powerful. If you are going the Ford Racing route you are mostly certainly spending a few Gs. I just think that a 'stang without the v8 is like an rx* without the rotary.

Which is fine.. I can hold onto my pipe dream until the cruel harsh reality beats me down. Looks like the Focus ST FRPP kit gives a boatload of torque and a bit of horsepower, but mainly increases the useable horsepower across the band. For 499, so not terrible.

Mustang without a V8 is what it is. From the beginning an I6 was an option, so fewer cylinders doesn't bother me. I'm interested in the weight difference with the 4 cyl and how the car feels so I'll definitely be checking it out.

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Everything I've heard points to a nearly $2K increase over outgoing model MSRP across all new model trims.

I've heard a lot of rumors but nothing concrete unfortunately, and no real date on the horizon of when we'll get more info. 2 grand, 10%, little to none, etc. Also saw one on a Mustang forum yesterday that the Ecoboost option will be a 500 dollar upgrade over the V6. And I know that when the car hits the hype will be massive and it'll be hard to find for less than MSRP for a bit most likely, but it got me curious to see the price of a current V6 base. TrueCar says there are dealerships in my area pricing them at 18.5 grand. Even for the current base car that seems like a pretty damn good deal.

edit: Ok, so a lot of the rumors stem from a product survey that came out not too long ago, posted here: http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=899