removable roll bars/cages

[delongedoug]

Any sort of roll bar = no more rear passengers. Period. Also, you're not going to want to be installing and uninstalling it, especially with no rear doors to get access. It's good that you can remove it at some point in the future as opposed to a weld in, but with a roll bar, your car's essentially track dedicated and you won't want to drive it anymore. Especially since you'll probably be running harnesses and racing seats. Ask me how I know.

[coyote]

Firstly, I don't think there's a lot of point in caging a car unless you strip it back to nothing and weld in a proper cage and further think that once you are considering a weld in cage, you should also be considering a dedicated race car.

However, the bolts that hold a joining tube are not there to provide strength in an impact. It is the overlap of the two tubes that provides the strength. The bolts just hold the tubes in place, but aren't even needed once impact forces are applied.

[oneday]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

i have been participating in motorsports for over 6 years and am still driving stock (see sig), however there are times when i think about my safety a little too much and start thinking of something along the lines of a roll bar...

If you are considering your safety, and thinking "rollbar" you should be thinking "complete safety package." By that I mean: SFI/FIA seat, SFI/FIA harness, head and neck restraint _AND_ a roll bar.

No one piece of that is much good without the rest.

A roll bar in a four-seater means you now have a two-seater. And, if you put a roll bar in your now-a-two-seater, you need to have equal safety gear for the passenger...so that "complete safety package" now requires two SFI/FIA seats, and two SFI/FIA harnesses.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by oneday

If you are considering your safety, and thinking "rollbar" you should be thinking "complete safety package." By that I mean: SFI/FIA seat, SFI/FIA harness, head and neck restraint _AND_ a roll bar.

No one piece of that is much good without the rest.

A roll bar in a four-seater means you now have a two-seater. And, if you put a roll bar in your now-a-two-seater, you need to have equal safety gear for the passenger...so that "complete safety package" now requires two SFI/FIA seats, and two SFI/FIA harnesses.

As usual I agree 100% with the above.

[delongedoug]

I'm greatly anticipating the car to come out. Not because I'm going to buy one right away, but so we can finally get a dedicated motorsport subforum on here.

Originally Posted by coyote

Firstly, I don't think there's a lot of point in caging a car unless you strip it back to nothing and weld in a proper cage and further think that once you are considering a weld in cage, you should also be considering a dedicated race car.

In general I agree, but not everyone is wheel to wheel racing in sanctioned events and is going to shell out a few grand for a rulebook spec weld in cage. With the speeds I hit and experiencing my first high-speed spin/off, I just wanted more safety on the track. Like everything, it's all a compromise.

Originally Posted by oneday

If you are considering your safety, and thinking "rollbar" you should be thinking "complete safety package." By that I mean: SFI/FIA seat, SFI/FIA harness, head and neck restraint _AND_ a roll bar.

No one piece of that is much good without the rest.

A roll bar in a four-seater means you now have a two-seater. And, if you put a roll bar in your now-a-two-seater, you need to have equal safety gear for the passenger...so that "complete safety package" now requires two SFI/FIA seats, and two SFI/FIA harnesses.

I'd only say that a roll bar is fine without the rest.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by oneday

SFI padding isn't designed to stop a cracked skull...it's intended to prevent cracking a helmet.

Yes, which is why I wrote and instead of or.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by old greg

Yes, which is why I wrote and instead of or.

Your statement sounded like the sfi padding made it safe.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by delongedoug

I'd only say that a roll bar is fine without the rest.

I'd disagree. I'm on my iPad do I don't feel like typing it in detail again but collapsible seats and 3 point harnesses really shouldn't be used with a rollbar.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Your statement sounded like the sfi padding made it safe.

That was not my intention.

[oneday]

Originally Posted by delongedoug

I'd only say that a roll bar is fine without the rest.

And if you tested that theory of yours you'd find out how very wrong you are....but you'd probably be dead or a vegetable so it wouldn't matter to you.

[CyberFormula]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I'd disagree. I'm on my iPad do I don't feel like typing it in detail again but collapsible seats and 3 point harnesses really shouldn't be used with a rollbar.

That may be true, but there are cars that come with harnesses that do not have roll bars (or perhaps it is built into the actual chassis, so there is no apparent roll bar), and there are cars with factory roll bars that does not come with harnesses.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by delongedoug

In general I agree, but not everyone is wheel to wheel racing in sanctioned events and is going to shell out a few grand for a rulebook spec weld in cage. With the speeds I hit and experiencing my first high-speed spin/off, I just wanted more safety on the track. Like everything, it's all a compromise.

Marginally more safety at the track (debatable) plus less safety on the street (no helmet) for front-seaters and enormously greater risk for rear-seaters (enough more that rear seat removal is warranted) is what you're considering. This car is going to provide a fair amount of rollover protection without a roll bar. My advice: forget about installing a roll bar.

[delongedoug]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Marginally more safety at the track (debatable) plus less safety on the street (no helmet) for front-seaters and enormously greater risk for rear-seaters (enough more that rear seat removal is warranted) is what you're considering. This car is going to provide a fair amount of rollover protection without a roll bar. My advice: forget about installing a roll bar.

Why would you need a helmet on the street with a 4 point rollbar? Also, I already stated that rear passengers are non-existant with a rollbar. It's not something I'm considering, it's in my garage right now.

[ZDan]

I didn't say "you need a helmet on the street with a 4 point rollbar", I said "less safety on the street". I.e., any tiny reduction in risk due to marginally greater rollover protection is likely offset by the (probably) less tiny risk of whacking the rollbar with your head in a greater number of types of accidents, including many more likely than rollovers.

FWIW, my Z, RX-7, and S2000 street cars all have 4-point roll bars. In the Z (minimal rollover protection stock) and the S2000 (convertible), they *might* be all-around safer street cars with the bars. For the RX-7, probably not, but required for its classification for track days ("prepared"). Otherwise I might remove it.

Anyway, I'm not jumping in and saying you MUST remove roll bars from street cars. I *am* recommending against installing a 4-point bar in a street car that already gives reasonable rollover protection. Costs time/money/effort and in all likelihood you'll be a smidge *less* safe for most of your usage.