fi and openflash tune

[endrswrd]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Nobody has reported any thus far but there aren't many that are using that form of boost control.

The only reason I would go that path is just familiarity to turbo subaru control logic. I am okay with using load based tuning as its what is used on all of the stock logic turbo subarus as well.

Sure I wont have all the cool features like boost per gear etc, but setup properly load based tuning will be just fine for moderate power levels / MAF based tuning.

With an EBCS ill have boost cut / boost control based on weather. Which is the more important thing, even though most boosted twin cars are probably just running spring pressure as they are mostly low boost systems.

[jamesm]

You can alter fueling based on MAP pressure, and control boost, with no new logic in the ecu at all. The maps are already there to be used. For boost you'd just use a tactrix solenoid and the fuel vent table same as ecutek does.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by regal

But for someone who just wants a moderate kit like base innovate, avo, or greddy, ~ 225whp, the license/cable/tune end up adding 25% to the cost.

If these cars are so complicated to tune that a 225 whp kit requires bypassing stock logic and EcuTeck then it cuts off a lot of potential customers.

Maybe I'm wrong but those who buy an Innovate kit with their carb 210hp base-map are paying for more than they need with the Ecutek.

I totally get the need for a $900 tune+ tuning equipment on those pushing 270+hp, but at some point someone is going to sell a ~225 hp kit with a free base map. Probably for $3500 done deal. Its a business model and market segment that this platform needs. Like Flying Miata's $3k kit?

i'm not aware of anything that's happened with the miata scene since mid-2006 or so, but i know back then (and for a decade or so prior), flyin' miata has provided base maps (no remote tuning) with their nemesis systems (and others prior to it) and people love them. they've logged literally millions of trouble-free miles on untouched, conservative base maps. there's no reason at all why the people selling forced induction for the 86 couldn't do the same and provide an all-inclusive package without the added cost of a license and the expectation of custom tuning.

the 'gotta have it custom tuned' attitude doesn't really exist where there aren't convenient options for it, and people don't seem to care much. certainly they're not popping engines left and right. they're not making every last hp they possibly could, but for most people that isn't the point. they want a good value on a safe bump in power.

[AVOturboworld]

Fun fact - we created the original flying miata turbo kits for them. Originally, they just used a piggy back to handle the tune. Quite simple, quite basic, and a simple enough ecu that it didn't have to be that complex.

ECU's have gotten a lot more complex since those days.

[FA20Club.com]

Originally Posted by jamesm

You can alter fueling based on MAP pressure, and control boost, with no new logic in the ecu at all. The maps are already there to be used. For boost you'd just use a tactrix solenoid and the fuel vent table same as ecutek does.

The issue is we dont use the solenoid's tables for duty its all custom coded into the ecu. My boost control tables are actually 6 custom tables 24x24 & 20x20 in size just for reference. Its not that I cant use OFT or Romraider but just like Paul@AVO said untill they support the features we need not just the bells & whistles its not worth it at this point and you can take that from someone who has Ecutek, BrzEdit, Rom Raider, ECUFlash Beta and OFT software so ive seen everything each has to offer and at the sacrifice of price id rather not tune a car outside of what i currently use to make my life harder and risk damaging a customers car because im the person trying to find a work around so something software doesnt have available at the moment.

If they build it we will come.... but its just a foundation at the moment call me when the roof is on the building.

[ztan]

Originally Posted by regal

But for someone who just wants a moderate kit like base innovate, avo, or greddy, ~ 225whp, the license/cable/tune end up adding 25% to the cost.

If these cars are so complicated to tune that a 225 whp kit requires bypassing stock logic and EcuTeck then it cuts off a lot of potential customers.

Maybe I'm wrong but those who buy an Innovate kit with their carb 210hp base-map are paying for more than they need with the Ecutek.

I totally get the need for a $900 tune+ tuning equipment on those pushing 270+hp, but at some point someone is going to sell a ~225 hp kit with a free base map. Probably for $3500 done deal. Its a business model and market segment that this platform needs. Like Flying Miata's $3k kit?

So what needs to be altered on the ECU to handle moderate output like the Innovate/Bullet/Sprintex kit? When do you need to look at getting custom boost control logic from other Subies patched into the ROM?

Does anyone have basemaps from their Innovate/Bullet/Sprintex kits that they are willing to share?

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by ztan

So what needs to be altered on the ECU to handle moderate output like the Innovate/Bullet/Sprintex kit? When do you need to look at getting custom boost control logic from other Subies patched into the ROM?

Does anyone have basemaps from their Innovate/Bullet/Sprintex kits that they are willing to share?

nothing at all. your ecu doesn't know if you're making 225whp or 550, makes no difference whatsoever. the same principles apply and work exactly the same. if you want to use electronic boost control you can do that without altering logic at all. personally i choose to stick to manual boost control, because i like my sanity.

as far as tuning it, i just pulled some timing whilst smoothing out the timing map, made the open loop afr targets reasonable for boost, and went for a drive. make some runs and log all the important bits, mainly knock control. make sure afrs are stable where you want them, then begin adding about a half a degree at a time to the cells with no knock, rinse and repeat.

my protune made 260whp and pulled -5deg in most FLKC cells, knocked like hell pretty much everywhere, with crazy afr's all over the place an 20+% fuel trims. my new tune, using basically this exact method (more precisely, that described by bad noodle's guide pretty much exactly), made 289whp at the same boost and has 0KC, 0 LTFT across the board. it took 54 revisions to get there, so it's not an overnight process. it takes time, and make small adjustments, no big changes at once.

most importantly, when something is wrong, i can fix it myself. no email back-and-forth, waiting a week for a response bs. teach a man to fish...

but us commoners can't figure out the fa20... so just pay someone to maybe possibly get it right when they find the time .

[Td-d]

Don't forget the closed to open loop delays.

[vgi]

Originally Posted by Td-d

Don't forget the closed to open loop delays.

any update on RR logging availability yet?

[Td-d]

Nope - but I haven't been in touch with Mike. SkullWorks had Colby sort his rom out, maybe he has an idea? I'll shoot Mike a mail.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Td-d

Don't forget the closed to open loop delays.

yes... i set the delays to zero before any further adjustment. i tried playing with them to eliminate tip-in knock i was seeing but it didn't have an effect, so they're back to zero and it seems to work well.

[vgi]

Originally Posted by Td-d

Nope - but I haven't been in touch with Mike. SkullWorks had Colby sort his rom out, maybe he has an idea? I'll shoot Mike a mail.

got it, thanks. I'm a bit confused though who's working on what project
I thought Colby and Mike work on EcuFlash nor RR?

[Td-d]

Originally Posted by vgi

got it, thanks. I'm a bit confused though who's working on what project
I thought Colby and Mike work on EcuFlash nor RR?

Correct - but without a patch from Ecuflash, RR logger will not be able to log (or onboard SD card logging).

[jamesm]

this can't happen soon enough... i want romraider back!