Cobb Accessport for BRZ/FRS

[yuicebox]

@Circuit Motorsports

I don't mean to fuel this argument, but I have one last question:

Is it that you don't think the OFT can log the data you need for an NA tune? Or that you can't/won't tune with TunerPro?

Or is it specifically the ability to lock tunes that you require?

again really not trying to be rude or argue, just trying to figure out why you won't take my money lol

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[Circuit Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Malt

That's sort of dancing around the issue isn't it? So tell me, if I came to you as a paying customer and OFT had all the features you think its needs minus the ability to lock a tune file, would you tune my car with OFT?

No? That was exactly my point.

I didn't mean to imply you have an issue with open source tuning, just simply that you think your tunes are akin to your intellectual property and the rights to it should be limited to the consumer. Its not that I necessarily agree or disagree with you, but everyone who probably actually considers a custom tune understands that its specific to their car and that sharing those tunes probably wouldn't be in other owners best interest. Regardless, I simply don't understand why custom tuners wouldn't want to unlock their tunes for the people that actually paid for them can have full access to what they paid for. People that are actually going to spend the money on a custom tune are going to get it done anyway instead of trying to get other peoples tunes.

Originally Posted by yuicebox

@Circuit Motorsports

I don't mean to fuel this argument, but I have one last question:

Is it that you don't think the OFT can log the data you need for an NA tune? Or that you can't/won't tune with TunerPro?

Or is it specifically the ability to lock tunes that you require?

again really not trying to be rude or argue, just trying to figure out why you won't take my money lol

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We would need to see that the logging can log everything we need before we would even consider it.

Also, right now we are not interested in Opensource due to the fact that the maps can't be locked.

This is for a few reasons, the main one being that our tuner Bob, works very hard to give the perfect tune every time, this has taken a lot of R&D and time, and we do not feel the time and effort should be given away for free (potentially).

Think of it from a Tuners side of things - He spends a lot of time and work, he tunes an opensource map, it can be distributed on the opensoruce market and any amateur, or pro tuner, can pick it up and grab the info and then use that as his own "work".

Every single tuner tunes differently, but giving out your intellectual property, or "secrets" if you will, is not a good practice in a very competitive market.

We don't lock maps for any other reason that that, it's not to be dubious, or to try and take your money down the road or to restrict your freedoms. We are in the busienss of providing absolutely top notch tunes, customer service and parts, and to do that, we need to get paid for our services to continue to keep the doors open

As I said, we are always looking at new possibilities, and we have a few ideas in the line

-Tristan

[RickyB]

Originally Posted by Circuit Motorsports

Also, right now we are not interested in Opensource due to the fact that the maps can't be locked.

This is for a few reasons, the main one being that our tuner Bob, works very hard to give the perfect tune every time, this has taken a lot of R&D and time, and we do not feel the time and effort should be given away for free (potentially).

Think of it from a Tuners side of things - He spends a lot of time and work, he tunes an opensource map, it can be distributed on the opensoruce market and any amateur, or pro tuner, can pick it up and grab the info and then use that as his own "work".

Every single tuner tunes differently, but giving out your intellectual property, or "secrets" if you will, is not a good practice in a very competitive market.

We don't lock maps for any other reason that that, it's not to be dubious, or to try and take your money down the road or to restrict your freedoms. We are in the busienss of providing absolutely top notch tunes, customer service and parts, and to do that, we need to get paid for our services to continue to keep the doors open

I would have to agree that it is every tuner's right to decide what jobs they will and won't take on. If a certain system or car does not meet their requirements, they have every right to turn down the job.

[vgi]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

...dynos that aren't adjusted to read higher than standard calibration?

C'mon mate, this is part of the tune! We're talking high HP numbers here on a locked tune...

[yuicebox]

@Circuit Motorsports


I completely understand your concerns. If I were you, I'd be cautious to risk my custom tunes being openly shared also. That's your job, and I understand that.

The two things I want to address are as follows:

1. If you provide me with a locked tune and I feel compelled to flash back to my stock tune, or to a different tune (say from 93 octane to e85 and back), I will have to visit the shop. You can counter by saying "oh we can tune flex fuel" but that's not my point. Locking a tune isn't just about protecting your intellectual property. It restricts the mobility and utility of the end product. If I could buy a tune from you and put it on my vehicle-locked Openflash Tablet and then switch back and forth between it and other unlocked tunes, I would be happy to pay for a locked tune. @shiv@vishnu - Can you tell me how your "tuner package" would affect this idea?

2. I could be wrong, because this is my opinion, but I personally don't think there's a big market for illegally shared, custom tunes from "big name" tuners. These tunes are typically designed for the specific vehicle and the specific mods, so there's not a huge benefit to sharing them with other people. Also, I like to think (possibly falsely), that the tuning community respects the notion of of intellectual property. I just don't see people running highly aggressive tunes that they downloaded from the internet that weren't even set up for their car. You could end up blowing up your engine because you stole an aggressive tune from a person who lives in Florida and you live in Colorado. Run to lean and blow your engine, that sort of thing. I just don't see REAL tuning enthusiasts being interested in sharing custom tunes illegally, and those are the people who buy custom tunes to begin with. Racers and performance junkies are typically more focused on having a leg up on the competition and having the best tune, rather than giving the "the best tune" away.

I get why you don't want to offer tunes to OFT customers, but I think you're really missing out on a market that's just begging for custom tunes, and who would be happy to pay and hesitant to share.


So that's my opinion. Thank you for taking the time to read it.

Respectfully,

Alex

[Circuit Motorsports]

Originally Posted by yuicebox

@Circuit Motorsports


I completely understand your concerns. If I were you, I'd be cautious to risk my custom tunes being openly shared also. That's your job, and I understand that.

The two things I want to address are as follows:

1. If you provide me with a locked tune and I feel compelled to flash back to my stock tune, or to a different tune (say from 93 octane to e85 and back), I will have to visit the shop. You can counter by saying "oh we can tune flex fuel" but that's not my point. Locking a tune isn't just about protecting your intellectual property. It restricts the mobility and utility of the end product. If I could buy a tune from you and put it on my vehicle-locked Openflash Tablet and then switch back and forth between it and other unlocked tunes, I would be happy to pay for a locked tune. @shiv@vishnu - Can you tell me how your "tuner package" would affect this idea?

2. I could be wrong, because this is my opinion, but I personally don't think there's a big market for illegally shared, custom tunes from "big name" tuners. These tunes are typically designed for the specific vehicle and the specific mods, so there's not a huge benefit to sharing them with other people. Also, I like to think (possibly falsely), that the tuning community respects the notion of of intellectual property. I just don't see people running highly aggressive tunes that they downloaded from the internet that weren't even set up for their car. You could end up blowing up your engine because you stole an aggressive tune from a person who lives in Florida and you live in Colorado. Run to lean and blow your engine, that sort of thing. I just don't see REAL tuning enthusiasts being interested in sharing custom tunes illegally, and those are the people who buy custom tunes to begin with. Racers and performance junkies are typically more focused on having a leg up on the competition and having the best tune, rather than giving the "the best tune" away.

I get why you don't want to offer tunes to OFT customers, but I think you're really missing out on a market that's just begging for custom tunes, and who would be happy to pay and hesitant to share.


So that's my opinion. Thank you for taking the time to read it.

Respectfully,

Alex

Completely understand everything you said here. Again, on your #2, we aren't so much worried about other people using your maps, as we are about amateur/pro tuners taking our tuning property and using it as theirs.

Just as an FYI - If you did get an Ecutek tune form us you would simply need a cable and a laptop to flash any map we made for you, or a stock ROM, to your car. Also, you can actually select maps on the fly using a built in feature of Ecuteks: you just select one of 4 maps we program for you car using your cruise control stalk. No need for a cable or a laptop, etc.

I also understand the ease of use with a flash device. We will keep an eye on the tuning world and stay updated with it as best we can.

I do appreciate your feedback

-Tristan

[flashburn]

No offense, but fuck Cobb. After owning a 370Z and them dropping AccessPort support after a year or so, I will never buy another one of their products.

[whitefrs]

this is what cobb responded to me

COBB Tuning Surgeline
Hi Wilbert - we aren't planning to support the FRS/BRZ. Sorry

[rice_classic]

Coming from the Honda world where the tuning options are so cheap it feels like open source, I now feel spoiled. I buy this car and see how much it costs for ECUTEK and tuning and my mind is blown.

I'm all for more tuning options that drastically bring down the price.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by whitefrs

this is what cobb responded to me

COBB Tuning Surgeline
Hi Wilbert - we aren't planning to support the FRS/BRZ. Sorry

Doesn't surprise me Wilbert. Did you tell them about how you feel when your turbo spools?

[R/T Tuning]

i would be shocked if the release anything for the brz/frs. They have historically never done well (with sales or gains) with NA cars, and have discontinued support for all of them

[PoorMansRacing]

Originally Posted by whitefrs

Hi Wilbert - we aren't planning to support the FRS/BRZ. Sorry

How blunt...

[whitefrs]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Doesn't surprise me Wilbert. Did you tell them about how you feel when your turbo spools?

:P


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[MysteryMachine]

Originally Posted by R/T Tuning

i would be shocked if the release anything for the brz/frs. They have historically never done well (with sales or gains) with NA cars, and have discontinued support for all of them

I beg to differ.... 10yrs ago they had top quality and nearly top HP in the NA space. They were rather similar then to what Nameless is now. Then with the popularity of the WRX with FI and easier to access CPUs they started going that way. The margin is just so much higher programming than fabricating.