Who's this? Wrecked BRZ @ VIR

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Porsche

I'll bet @Dave-ROR would not have permitted that. Heh.

It depends. I would have inspected the car for bushing, brake line, tire, clutch and fuel line damage. We never let a seriously damaged car run again the same day, but since we do two day events the second day would have been possible. Often that's not because of the car, but because the driver is generally NOT mentally ready for going back out. They need time to process and think about what happened. Now of course that depends on the damage, this was severe. A slide scraping some tire walls is quite different.

I've put cars into walls racing before, gotten towed out, ripped off the body parts (or banged them out), checked the car out and went back out again. A few laps of 5/10ths, then some 7/10ths, then race speed for another hour. :shrug:

I'm not the smartest person around though.

In his case if I inspected the car (as an event organizer) I would have let it out ONLY if I felt safe enough to drive it myself. And I would have driven it around off track to ensure critical systems functioned as intended and warned the driver to drive slower, moved then down a group if possible, and had corner workers watch him like a hawk for a few sessions. Also, it wouldn't have been the same day with the damage sustained for the reasons above.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I've had one slow spin like that. I didn't realize until the car was 10 degrees left that it was rotating, the car felt perfectly normal. 100+MPH slide at Sebring. I reacted quickly enough to straighten the car before driving off into the grass though. There's a ton of room at that spot anyways.

Snapping is more dangerous but at least it's OBVIOUS I've had the BRZ snap on me in T1 at Sebring, still not sure how I pulled that one out without a spin/damage.

Heh, I've seen that video.

[Pete156]

The only place those POS Primacy tires should be on a race track is being part of the tire wall. Taking a modified car around a race track on THOSE tires is like marrying a hooker. It's just stupid!

My two cents worth

[MightyMeeple]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Out of curiousity, how did you spin off there? Long slide from the kink? Or rotation under braking? I've seen people go straight off T1 and to the left of T1, but never to the right going into T1 (except in a case of oil on the track right after the kink resulting in a loooong slide).

It was rotation under braking...my instructor said I was too hot coming in...I was braking, down shifted, and was just starting to rotate the steering wheel...rear end came loose and spun quickly clockwise.

I need more time on the track and more coaching!

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by MightyMeeple

It was rotation under braking...my instructor said I was too hot coming in...I was braking, down shifted, and was just starting to rotate the steering wheel...rear end came loose and spun quickly clockwise.

I need more time on the track and more coaching!

Gotcha. Makes sense now

[ImAwesome]

Sorry to hear man, I was there just the saturday-sunday before

[Maverick22]

I want to see your on board GoPro Video!

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Pete156

The only place those POS Primacy tires should be on a race track is being part of the tire wall. Taking a modified car around a race track on THOSE tires is like marrying a hooker. It's just stupid!

My two cents worth

I disagree. A good driver works with the level of grip available and the Primacy tires still provide more than enough grip to enjoy yourself during a track day.

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I disagree. A good driver works with the level of grip available and the Primacy tires still provide more than enough grip to enjoy yourself during a track day.

Maybe I'm just a shitty driver, but I found these OEM Primacy tires to be highly unpredictable at the limit; couldn't imagine them at the limit WITH a supercharged BRZ/FRS.

I did one day on the OEM Primacys at Sebring and couldn't get rid of them fast enough.

[WolfpackS2k]

I appreciate all the above comments. As to a new car I've been brainstorming about that since last week. To be honest I think I'm going to finally pull the trigger on a Cayman S.

Originally Posted by Maverick22

I want to see your on board GoPro Video!

The link to it is posted in this thread, don't recall which page exactly. But if you just go to Youtube and type in the key words "BRZ VIR South Bend" it is the first search result.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Porsche

Where you were pinching it in at turn exit, i.e. applying more steering lock, you needed to be reducing steering lock, turning the wheel clockwise to the straight ahead position. Had you done that -- on the line you'd chosen when turning in too early -- you may well have dropped two or even four wheels off the right side.

Out of curiosity, when you saying "pinching it in at turn exit", are you talking about not unwinding the steering fully on track out? It does look like there was room to track out more fully to the right in that video, which I assume might have prevented a spin.

Originally Posted by Porsche

This is probably the single most common mistake that inexperienced (and even experienced) drivers make. Turn in too early and that means you're going to be running wide at corner exit. Sometimes one may be able to get away with pinching it in at corner exit, but oftentimes not. Do that in Turn 10 on this track and you'll likely visit the left side tire wall.

Again, I cannot overemphasize this, you needed to allow the car to run wide on its "natural line." I urge you to remember to do that next time.

So if you've turned in too early and realize you will run wide at corner exit, I can see you'd want to track out fully to have the best chance of staying on pavement. But if you don't have room to track out anymore and will still run wide, are you saying you shouldn't "pinch in" (assuming I'm understanding that word correctly)? In other words, you shouldn't decrease the amount you unwind the wheel on track out in an effort to keep it on pavement?

I'm asking because I think my natural response in that situation (if by apex I knew I was going to run wide at exit) is to not roll on the throttle on corner exit and to pinch in. And once I got the car positioned correctly, to get back on the throttle. I don't see how this would cause a spin or be dangerous, but I'm probably missing something here.

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I appreciate all the above comments. As to a new car I've been brainstorming about that since last week. To be honest I think I'm going to finally pull the trigger on a Cayman S.

Sounds like that might be the silver lining to all this. I know you had written about wanting a Cayman S for a while, so this might end up working out for you

[ja1217]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I'm asking because I think my natural response in that situation (if by apex I knew I was going to run wide at exit) is to not roll on the throttle on corner exit and to pinch in. And once I got the car positioned correctly, to get back on the throttle. I don't see how this would cause a spin or be dangerous, but I'm probably missing something here.

It depends, if you are on the limit going into the corner what you are describing would probably make you more likely to spin, especially if you are easing off the throttle shifting the weight off of the back tires. If you aren't taking the corner at the limit of grip then you can get away with it.

That said, it also depends on the track. For example, if you knew you turned in too early and weren't going to make the corner and you know you're going to end up in a wall on the outside of the turn, I would probably take my chances and turn in harder, possible try and ride out a spin while staying on the track. On this turn at VIR if you go wide there's nothing to hit and you've got a huge grassy area to come to a peaceful stop so it makes sense just to ride it out and avoid spinning. I had to make a similar decision at the bottom of the Esses at this event. Someone had gone off at the top of the Esses and had started a fairly large grass fire. I got distracted by what was going on at the top of the hill and wasn't paying attention to what I was doing and ended up going 2 off and stradling a curb, causing some scraping. That said, some minor scraping is probably better than trying to jerk the car back over that tricky part of the Esses at 100+mph:

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by ja1217

It depends, if you are on the limit going into the corner what you are describing would probably make you more likely to spin, especially if you are easing off the throttle shifting the weight off of the back tires. If you aren't taking the corner at the limit of grip then you can get away with it.

Hmm, yeah I can see that. This reminds me, I can remember a similar situation during my last track day. What I ended up doing was staying on maintenance throttle the entire time and slightly "pinching" the corner exit, riding the car out to the very edge of the track curbing nearly to the grass. I think I could have pinched the exit a bit more actually. With just maintenance throttle on track out, the car felt fairly stable, but it's hard to say how close the car was to actually spinning if I had pinched more.

Originally Posted by ja1217

That said, it also depends on the track. For example, if you knew you turned in too early and weren't going to make the corner and you know you're going to end up in a wall on the outside of the turn, I would probably take my chances and turn in harder, possible try and ride out a spin while staying on the track. On this turn at VIR if you go wide there's nothing to hit and you've got a huge grassy area to come to a peaceful stop so it makes sense just to ride it out and avoid spinning. I had to make a similar decision at the bottom of the Esses at this event. Someone had gone off at the top of the Esses and had started a fairly large grass fire. I got distracted by what was going on at the top of the hill and wasn't paying attention to what I was doing and ended up going 2 off and stradling a curb, causing some scraping. That said, some minor scraping is probably better than trying to jerk the car back over that tricky part of the Esses at 100+mph:

Scary. But agree, minor scraping is much better than spinning at 100+ for sure!

[WolfpackS2k]

Well the thing is, until the rear end started sliding just as I was entering the elevation drop the car was doing just fine, plenty of grip. I wasn't tracking out much to the right during my time on course as I was having a difficult time visually placing that side of the car. I never was concerned about sliding off course to the infield. As I felt the rear sliding I thought thought if I maintained steady inputs it would settle down. Of course, my mind wasn't factoring in the further loss of grip from the elevation drop...so there ya go.