Coilover choice, Tein SRC or Ohlins R&T

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Like ZDan said, 1-way is supposed to adjust rebound and compression simultaneously in proportion to each other, but in reality, 1-way adjustable setups affect rebound more than the compression.

In my limited experience with them, and lacking any shock dyno data, I'll just say that it seems to me that the adjustment on the Ohlins DFV affects low-speed compression damping commensurately with rebound damping.

Simply put, you are basically stuck with that particular spring rate since the valving is tailored specifically to that spring rate.

Should be noted that a 10% change in spring rate only requires a 5% change in damping to give the same percentage of critical damping. The Ohlins give a quite perceptible change in both rebound and compression damping per click in the 1 to ~8 clicks out range on my FD RX-7 (beyond that they seem a bit underdamped with less noticeable change between clicks). I'm thinking about increasing front spring rate from 11 to 13 kg/mm, and I think the damping adjustment range will accommodate this (will check w/ Ohlins first), possibly at the cost of resolution (i.e., probably a bigger jump between clicks in the trackable range, which is ~4-6 clicks with 11kg springs, probably 2-4 clicks with 13).

On top of that, most people are not able to tune 2-ways properly. To give you an idea, many clients come to us asking us to help them out with their suspension setups, more particularly KW V3 or Club Sport owners. They end up realizing their rebound and compression settings are way off.

Yup, safe to say that most of us mortals don't get *nearly* enough dedicated track time for tuning to REALLY optimize multiple settings. If it's possible to get a set of dampers that have already been developed for a specific application, less likely to get lost in the wilderness...

Ohlins has a proven background, but do not always look at the name for quality. There is a reason behind the price difference. The TEIN SRCs are a completely different class from the rest of the TEIN lineup just like Ohlins TTX is completely different from their DFV stuff.

I don't know if the two are analogous. Having just come from a set of single-adjustable Tein SuperStreets that were utter CRAP, i can say that the single-adjustable Ohlins are in a TOTALLY different ballpark! You can't just throw the Ohlins DFVs in with the majority of Tein's single-adjustable range of coilovers. Tein sells stuff that is pretty much garbage. Ohlins does not.

There are adjustments on the R&T with camber plates. So I'm not sure what adjustability you're looking for?

There was a spurious comment on the thread that seemed to indicate that the Ohlins DFV didn't have camber adjustability, I fell for it too. Good to know that they do allow front camber adjustability!

True story. I'm glad you pointed that out. As a fellow veteran S2k owner, your opinion is much appreciated in this forum.

Weirdly enough, since the S2k has always been my DD/backup track car I've never messed with its suspension at all! Great stock suspension. A bit undersprung and underdamped, but the low/high-speed damping is very digressive and has not deteriorated over 160k miles of street and track usage!

The benefit of a 2-way is much more effective in the hands of the proper user/tuner. While Ohlins R&T is extremely high end compared to their competitors (unless you're pointing out the ASM Sachs stuff...), it also utilizes proper engineering to provide significant differences per click. This is one of the best 1-way available on the market and it's proven to be rightfully so.

Totally agree. For *most* users, I think they're going to be the best bet. To me the rebound/compression damping is right where it needs to be for the range I'm using (I'm 6 clicks out on the street, 4F/5R clicks out at the track on the RX-7). I.e., I don't find myself wishing I could separate rebound and compression damping adjustment. But I'm not a dedicated die-hard track junkie, either. I go to the track and work out a usable setup and drive

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by ZDan

In my limited experience with them, and lacking any shock dyno data, I'll just say that it seems to me that the adjustment on the Ohlins DFV affects low-speed compression damping commensurately with rebound damping.

Should be noted that a 10% change in spring rate only requires a 5% change in damping to give the same percentage of critical damping. The Ohlins give a quite perceptible change in both rebound and compression damping per click in the 1 to ~8 clicks out range on my FD RX-7 (beyond that they seem a bit underdamped with less noticeable change between clicks). I'm thinking about increasing front spring rate from 11 to 13 kg/mm, and I think the damping adjustment range will accommodate this (will check w/ Ohlins first), possibly at the cost of resolution (i.e., probably a bigger jump between clicks in the trackable range, which is ~4-6 clicks with 11kg springs, probably 2-4 clicks with 13).

Yup, safe to say that most of us mortals don't get *nearly* enough dedicated track time for tuning to REALLY optimize multiple settings. If it's possible to get a set of dampers that have already been developed for a specific application, less likely to get lost in the wilderness...


I don't know if the two are analogous. Having just come from a set of single-adjustable Tein SuperStreets that were utter CRAP, i can say that the single-adjustable Ohlins are in a TOTALLY different ballpark! You can't just throw the Ohlins DFVs in with the majority of Tein's single-adjustable range of coilovers. Tein sells stuff that is pretty much garbage. Ohlins does not.

There was a spurious comment on the thread that seemed to indicate that the Ohlins DFV didn't have camber adjustability, I fell for it too. Good to know that they do allow front camber adjustability!

Weirdly enough, since the S2k has always been my DD/backup track car I've never messed with its suspension at all! Great stock suspension. A bit undersprung and underdamped, but the low/high-speed damping is very digressive and has not deteriorated over 160k miles of street and track usage!

Totally agree. For *most* users, I think they're going to be the best bet. To me the rebound/compression damping is right where it needs to be for the range I'm using (I'm 6 clicks out on the street, 4F/5R clicks out at the track on the RX-7). I.e., I don't find myself wishing I could separate rebound and compression damping adjustment. But I'm not a dedicated die-hard track junkie, either. I go to the track and work out a usable setup and drive

R&T is a good setup for those who don't want to spend much time to dial the dampers. Ohlins created a high quality product for as it sits.

TEIN has spent quite a bit of time redeveloping their lineup. As with ALL suspension systems, quality of suspension is proportional to cost. Again, SRCs are very different from the other TEINs. How do we know? We tested most of them before. Fortunately enough, the newer "Street" line up seems to be better than their legacy although I've heard a thing or two of unhappy users of "Street Advanced".

Believe me, we're simply mortals as well. We're enthusiasts doing things for enthusiasts, but our hands dove deep into the motorsport line-up and now we can't get our heads and hands out of it. It's such a different world out there compared to street suspension kits that it's understandable as to why racing organizations don't really bother with the aftermarket realm. People want Lexus ride quality, epic fabrication quality, exotic materials and coatings, and proper suspension feel during performance driving for $1k. As an engineer who designs and manufactures stuff for the aerospace industry, you can only create goals within a scope if you want to reach a target price point or a particular quality, etc.

To be back on topic somewhat....a reiteration of goals for your car can be jumped to R&T for a good 1-way setup and SRC for a good 2-way setup. To get to SRC suspension level, look for JRZs, KW motorsport, or Ohlins motorsport offerings, which are all systems we can help develop if there is genuine commitments. These guys know what setups we want for our cars and this community, so if you're interested, just PM me.

[whataboutbob]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Basically you get Clubsports at V3 pricing. And a lifetime warranty. Give us a call sometime.

- Andy

I'll be calling you in the next 2 days.

B

[CSG Mike]

Someone get us a set of TTX rears...

I wonder what I could do with a hybrid SRC front TTX rear setup...

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Ohlins R&T is a good offering in the 1-way format. However if you want a motorsports grade coilover, SRCs are the one of the best coilovers for what you're looking for in terms of performance, quality, and value. If you are interested in having your multi-way coilovers dialed by CSG, let us know.

I'm curious where you guys would put your JRZ's in this discussion. What about AST 4150 singles and 4250 double adjustable?

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by solidONE

I'm curious where you guys would put your JRZ's in this discussion. What about AST 4150 singles and 4250 double adjustable?

AST 4150 singles would be basically an Ohlins R&T direct competitor. You just can't compare a 1-way adjustable setup to 2-way, unless you are capable of developing your own valving with the proper internals...which can get pretty pricey. You can even build a non-adjustable shock and make it look stock with the proper valving. It's just extremely time consuming and expensive.

While we haven't tested AST 4250 extensively, I'd venture to say it's basically JRZ and TEIN SRC territory. Meaning, it's good and considering AST builds excellent stuff, I would be optimistic for these. If you can afford this, I'm sure you can afford the revalving. Most base valving setups are usually pretty generic. Some work extremely well and some are so-so. We found that the JRZ soaked up road imperfections barely better than the TEIN SRCs, but the CSG Spec valved TEIN SRCs are better than the JRZs. How do we know? We have a car with JRZs and a car with the TEIN SRC CSG Spec valving that we drive back to back all the time.

JRZ is proven and we have had extensive experience with these units on the BRZ/FRS. Let us know if you're interested.

[CSG Mike]

Latest CSG spec SRC should be on a car within 2 weeks or so...

[Anthonytpt]

Can I get a ride?

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Latest CSG spec SRC should be on a car within 2 weeks or so...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Anthonytpt

Can I get a ride?

You know where to find me

[Anthonytpt]

I do!

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

You know where to find me

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Anthonytpt

I do!

Stalker...LOL!!!!

[Anthonytpt]

Correction: CSG-Spec Stalker.

Originally Posted by CSG David

Stalker...LOL!!!!

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by CSG David

AST 4150 singles would be basically an Ohlins R&T direct competitor. You just can't compare a 1-way adjustable setup to 2-way, unless you are capable of developing your own valving with the proper internals...which can get pretty pricey. You can even build a non-adjustable shock and make it look stock with the proper valving. It's just extremely time consuming and expensive.

While we haven't tested AST 4250 extensively, I'd venture to say it's basically JRZ and TEIN SRC territory. Meaning, it's good and considering AST builds excellent stuff, I would be optimistic for these. If you can afford this, I'm sure you can afford the revalving. Most base valving setups are usually pretty generic. Some work extremely well and some are so-so. We found that the JRZ soaked up road imperfections barely better than the TEIN SRCs, but the CSG Spec valved TEIN SRCs are better than the JRZs. How do we know? We have a car with JRZs and a car with the TEIN SRC CSG Spec valving that we drive back to back all the time.

JRZ is proven and we have had extensive experience with these units on the BRZ/FRS. Let us know if you're interested.

Reason why I mentioned the AST was because I was rather impressed with the features they offer at the price point on their 4150/4250 line. Particularly the double digressive valving and the ability to upgrade to 2 way. So with this set up you can run the single, test it, and upon time for rebuild and/or revalve one can upgrade to a double adjustable if one chooses. Only other manufacture to offer similar features at the price point is Fortune Auto with their top of the line offering. Although, the dyno of their version of the double digressive valving looks rather strange...

I'm not in the market at this moment but I definitely will be. I plan to add some coilovers sometime next year. Will definitely hit you guys up when that time comes. The SRC's you guys developed is high on my list of considerations.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Reason why I mentioned the AST was because I was rather impressed with the features they offer at the price point on their 4150/4250 line. Particularly the double digressive valving and the ability to upgrade to 2 way. So with this set up you can run the single, test it, and upon time for rebuild and/or revalve one can upgrade to a double adjustable if one chooses. Only other manufacture to offer similar features at the price point is Fortune Auto with their top of the line offering. Although, the dyno of their version of the double digressive valving looks rather strange...

I'm not in the market at this moment but I definitely will be. I plan to add some coilovers sometime next year. Will definitely hit you guys up when that time comes. The SRC's you guys developed is high on my list of considerations.

You are in California, just hit us up if you're interested in a ride just to find out how the SRCs feel. We have been working with Imperious Rex's BRZ for awhile and his JRZ are pretty sweet too.