What tunes can be reflashed to stock and then back to tuned ? - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

ScionFR-S · 11-20-2013, 12:53 AM

I want to get a tune but just have the concern of being able to flash it back to stock to bring to the dealer and not get caught. Will they be able to tell I tuned the car ?
Also when getting an emissions check and inspection will a tune not let me pass ? I live in NY

Maverick22 · 11-20-2013, 01:05 AM

There is a flash count on the ECU that te dealer can see. The only way to get around this is a piggy back system.

Circuit Motorsports · 11-20-2013, 01:06 AM

Most tuning solution's will allow you to flash back to a stock rom. Ecutek, OFT/Opensource, etc.

Whether or not the dealer will be able to tell is a debate that will never end across all platforms.

Fast_Freddy · 11-20-2013, 01:10 AM

Any ECU flash tune can be flashed in and out. It's as simple as flashing different firmware to your PC. The dealer won't know however I suspect that Toyota or Subaru could tell if they actually wanted to dig deep enough (Think catastrophic engine failure). Emissions testing is not a concern. All they look for are active and pending DTCs. Unichip leaves no "footprint" even for the manufacturer's but removing all traces of it for dealer visits would be a PITA and it doesn't do much anyway.

Shiv@Openflash · 11-20-2013, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick22

There is a flash count on the ECU that te dealer can see. The only way to get around this is a piggy back system.

I don't believe this is true. I have yet to see any info that the stock ECU has a flash counter. I believe the only incrementing is that of the CAL ID which, in the case of the OpenFlash Tablet, is saved when installed and then restored back to original when it is unmarried.

Shiv

Maverick22 · 11-20-2013, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I don't believe this is true. I have yet to see any info that the stock ECU has a flash counter. I believe the only incrementing is that of the CAL ID which, in the case of the OpenFlash Tablet, is saved when installed and then restored back to original when it is unmarried.

Shiv

Shiv, I respect what you do and I love the open flash tablet..... But I used to work for toyota. Company policy makes it mandatory to be able to track if an ECU has been molested by an outside source.
Subaru has similar standards. There is a counter. I wish I could provide evidence. There is a thread that talks about the counter, It might have been under an ECU TEK thread. I tried searching for it but came up empty.

Eurasianman · 11-20-2013, 09:44 AM

Or the OP could just buy another ECU if he is that concerned about that. One ECU with the stock ROM and one ECU with whatever else.

That SHOULD work, right?

jvincent · 11-20-2013, 02:09 PM

Does anyone know the exact model of the ECU?

It should a simple matter of looking at the data sheet/user manual to determine if there is a non-volatile counter that keeps track of write cycles.

It is possible to build that function into the chips, but I'd be surprised if the actual H/W has it. It's more likely what Shiv describes, i.e. they up rev the counter when a new program load is built.

bfrank1972 · 11-20-2013, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScionFR-S

I want to get a tune but just have the concern of being able to flash it back to stock to bring to the dealer and not get caught. Will they be able to tell I tuned the car ?
Also when getting an emissions check and inspection will a tune not let me pass ? I live in NY

Maybe they can tell, maybe they can't. Likely they will never know unless a big failure happens, then they may find out. People, life is full of risks, big ones and little ones - it's up to you to decide if it's worth it. Me? - I think it's a small risk.

ScionFR-S · 11-20-2013, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Maybe they can tell, maybe they can't. Likely they will never know unless a big failure happens, then they may find out. People, life is full of risks, big ones and little ones - it's up to you to decide if it's worth it. Me? - I think it's a small risk.

I understand that and I agree I just don't want something to be prematurely worn or something go wrong with the engine or tranny and the dealer give me a big FU bc they blame it on the tune

jamesm · 11-20-2013, 07:26 PM

yes it is possible to tell if the ecu is modified. whether or not the dealers have this capability is unknown. if you modify your ecu, whether with a flash or piggyback or anything else, and it causes something to break it is not a covered repair. if something breaks unrelated to the modified piece (say your window switch quits working), it's a covered repair. you're basically concerned with how easy it will be to defraud someone.

there is a risk associated with modifying a cars ecu. it should be yours, not your dealers. if you can't afford to fix it, you can't afford to own it.

Fast_Freddy · 11-21-2013, 03:50 AM

A spare ECU probably won't work. If you blew your engine with a flashed ECU and then installed your spare "stock ECU" for warranty repairs it would be obvious to the dealer and manufacturer because the last event recorded would be a normal engine shutdown. There may be even more telltales. It might work under certain circumstances like you know something is going wrong so you install the spare ECU weeks before going to the dealer but it's all pretty sleazy. Just accept responsibility for your actions.

11-20-2013, 12:53 AM	#1
ScionFR-S Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: Raven Scion FR-S Location: Queens, NY Posts: 665 Thanks: 32 Thanked 79 Times in 55 Posts Mentioned: 4 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	What tunes can be reflashed to stock and then back to tuned ? I want to get a tune but just have the concern of being able to flash it back to stock to bring to the dealer and not get caught. Will they be able to tell I tuned the car ? Also when getting an emissions check and inspection will a tune not let me pass ? I live in NY __________________ "To make it in America you need three things, a smile, a gun, and a plan. If you need to give up one thing, give up the smile. If you need to give something else up, lose the gun. But never, ever, give up your plan."

11-20-2013, 09:44 AM	#7
Eurasianman Chief Join Date: Feb 2012 Drives: 2013 DGM BRZ Premium 6MT Location: USA Posts: 573 Thanks: 145 Thanked 178 Times in 126 Posts Mentioned: 8 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Or the OP could just buy another ECU if he is that concerned about that. One ECU with the stock ROM and one ECU with whatever else. That SHOULD work, right? __________________

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11-20-2013, 01:06 AM	#3
Circuit Motorsports Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Drives: 2013 Subaru BRZ Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 4,353 Thanks: 294 Thanked 495 Times in 259 Posts Mentioned: 35 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	Most tuning solution's will allow you to flash back to a stock rom. Ecutek, OFT/Opensource, etc. Whether or not the dealer will be able to tell is a debate that will never end across all platforms.

11-20-2013, 01:10 AM	#4
Fast_Freddy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: Passat Location: East Coast Posts: 626 Thanks: 331 Thanked 188 Times in 130 Posts Mentioned: 6 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Any ECU flash tune can be flashed in and out. It's as simple as flashing different firmware to your PC. The dealer won't know however I suspect that Toyota or Subaru could tell if they actually wanted to dig deep enough (Think catastrophic engine failure). Emissions testing is not a concern. All they look for are active and pending DTCs. Unichip leaves no "footprint" even for the manufacturer's but removing all traces of it for dealer visits would be a PITA and it doesn't do much anyway.

11-20-2013, 02:09 PM	#8
jvincent Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Drives: 2022 WRB BRZ Sport-Tech Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,746 Thanks: 131 Thanked 1,411 Times in 715 Posts Mentioned: 25 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	Does anyone know the exact model of the ECU? It should a simple matter of looking at the data sheet/user manual to determine if there is a non-volatile counter that keeps track of write cycles. It is possible to build that function into the chips, but I'd be surprised if the actual H/W has it. It's more likely what Shiv describes, i.e. they up rev the counter when a new program load is built.

11-20-2013, 07:26 PM	#11
jamesm Banned Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: 2013 FR-S Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,929 Thanks: 1,166 Thanked 2,293 Times in 1,180 Posts Mentioned: 313 Post(s) Tagged: 4 Thread(s)	yes it is possible to tell if the ecu is modified. whether or not the dealers have this capability is unknown. if you modify your ecu, whether with a flash or piggyback or anything else, and it causes something to break it is not a covered repair. if something breaks unrelated to the modified piece (say your window switch quits working), it's a covered repair. you're basically concerned with how easy it will be to defraud someone. there is a risk associated with modifying a cars ecu. it should be yours, not your dealers. if you can't afford to fix it, you can't afford to own it.

11-21-2013, 03:50 AM	#12
Fast_Freddy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: Passat Location: East Coast Posts: 626 Thanks: 331 Thanked 188 Times in 130 Posts Mentioned: 6 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	A spare ECU probably won't work. If you blew your engine with a flashed ECU and then installed your spare "stock ECU" for warranty repairs it would be obvious to the dealer and manufacturer because the last event recorded would be a normal engine shutdown. There may be even more telltales. It might work under certain circumstances like you know something is going wrong so you install the spare ECU weeks before going to the dealer but it's all pretty sleazy. Just accept responsibility for your actions.

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