Cobb Accessport for BRZ/FRS

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by Circuit Motorsports

It's very public knowledge on here what the OFT can, and can't, do.

I was just offering my insight and opinion, so, I'm not looking to start a dispute, or throw dirt around




Agreed.

If we could combine the best aspects of EcuTeks setup and Cobbs setup we would have the perfect tuning solution!

-Tristan

EcuTek would charge another $500 on top of the $800 they already charge for the handheld unit.

EcuTek was one of the hold-backs that kept me from going to the BRZ earlier than I did. Locked tunes, horror stories, insanely overpriced license, etc. Bad bad bad bad bad. Cobb's support on the other hand: well known, trusted, been supporting Subaru for a LONG time and still doing so, etc.

The OFT stuff may have been in use with BMWs for years, but that's the point: in use by BMWs, not Subarus. Cobb knows Subies. OFT is still learning in comparison.

[yuicebox]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

The OFT stuff may have been in use with BMWs for years, but that's the point: in use by BMWs, not Subarus. Cobb knows Subies. OFT is still learning in comparison.

I'll let @shiv@vishnu provide a proper response here but if I'm not mistaken, Vishnu Tuning has been doing Subaru tunes for a long time

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[DKEddy90]

Originally Posted by yuicebox

I'll let @shiv@vishnu provide a proper response here but if I'm not mistaken, Vishnu Tuning has been doing Subaru tunes for a long time

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

This ^^^

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

[Shiv@Openflash]

Ive have been tuning subies since 1998. And I suppose that reflects on the OFT maps. The OFT itself is just a transport device and doesn't have to be application specific. But we do our best to customize it for each application in a way that customers find helpful.

[mrk1]

I had an AP in my last STI, yes the canned tune that came with it wasnt the greatest but its just that, a canned tune. I later had the AP tuned with a pro tune and it was great.

I would definitely be interested in an AP for my BRZ. There are a hand full of Cobb tuners in my area, not so much for Ecutek as far as I can see. I don't think Cobb can be to late to market with this. Just about everyone at least knows what an AP is so they already have that covered. I see why they may have dismissed the possibility in the beginning being a NA car, I know I am amazed at how many people are going FI this quick with the car, maybe they had the same thoughts.

[Circuit Motorsports]

Originally Posted by SpeedyJay

I came from the Evo X community and the Cobb AP in looked down upon by many. When tuning the X you can get a much better tune going opensource then Cobb. Cobb is still behind the curve with the X cause developers keep bringing up new maps and options with opensource. (ie RAX patch and Tephra Mod if anyone if familiar with the X)

Also recent Cobb maps for the X have had to much timing in the top end and have shown considerable knock (10-13 counts)

Personally I recommend Cobb to the people who want 'User friendly' and Opensource to the more savvy who want the best possible tune.

I can't talk about the Evo X tunes because we don't really tune those, but the Cobb software is ideal for the Subaru and GTR crowd.

Originally Posted by SirBrass

EcuTek would charge another $500 on top of the $800 they already charge for the handheld unit.

EcuTek was one of the hold-backs that kept me from going to the BRZ earlier than I did. Locked tunes, horror stories, insanely overpriced license, etc. Bad bad bad bad bad. Cobb's support on the other hand: well known, trusted, been supporting Subaru for a LONG time and still doing so, etc.

The OFT stuff may have been in use with BMWs for years, but that's the point: in use by BMWs, not Subarus. Cobb knows Subies. OFT is still learning in comparison.

Since EcuTek doesn't have a handheld tuner we have no idea what the charge would be, but the tuner would in theory take place of the cable.

The software however, is incredible as a tuning tool. Nothing can touch it on this platform. It's a bit more expensive, but, you get what you pay for kind of thing.

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Tristan,
Just curious, what exactly do u think the OFT is lacking at this time? Besides the ability to allow tuners to lock their map from the user, how is the hypothetical Cobb AP "a better product" in your opinion? We are always looking for ways to improve our product so such feedback would be very welcome.

-Real data-logging (it still boggles my mind that people are running tunes, and have been, without being able to datalog to confirm the cars running condition if a problem arises)

-The ability to properly tune a turbocharged car

-True Flex-Fuel

-The OFT business model is not setup at all for other tuners. I understand why, and I see the advantages for some people (ie. the DIY tuners), it's just not ideal for any other Pro-tuner to throw their tune in the hat and "give it away". Which is why there has been little, if any, support from the other "Pro tuners" in this community. I don't see it happening either, but things may change, who knows.

-Also, There is just no way right now that we would feel comfortable giving someone a tune, whether it's e-tuning or in person, without full datalogging capability. You can't extract all of the power out of a car without knowing where the limits are. Which is why the OTF maps are "watered-down" I'm sure.

The OFT just feels like a BETA product overall. It still has a long way to go.


These are my opinions, in response to Shivs question. I am not telling people NOT to buy it, or support it, nor am I saying it's a crap product. The Opensource tuning community is definitely alive and well, and this is a product that caters directly to them and some of those DIY'ers who want to tinker themselves. For them, this thing is a real nice concept.

If you're thinking of buying a tune, tuning software, hardware etc. Just make sure you know what you're buying, do research, ask questions, consider your future needs. There are multiple options and more will be coming to this market I'm sure. We will always be on the lookout to offer the best tuning solutions for our customers, we are defintiely not married to one platform.


-Tristan

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by Circuit Motorsports

-Real data-logging (it still boggles my mind that people are running tunes, and have been, without being able to datalog to confirm the cars running condition if a problem arises)

-The ability to properly tune a turbocharged car

-True Flex-Fuel

-The OFT business model is not setup at all for other tuners. I understand why, and I see the advantages for some people (ie. the DIY tuners), it's just not ideal for any other Pro-tuner to throw their tune in the hat and "give it away". Which is why there has been little, if any, support from the other "Pro tuners" in this community. I don't see it happening either, but things may change, who knows.

-Also, There is just no way right now that we would feel comfortable giving someone a tune, whether it's e-tuning or in person, without full datalogging capability. You can't extract all of the power out of a car without knowing where the limits are. Which is why the OTF maps are "watered-down" I'm sure.

The OFT just feels like a BETA product overall. It still has a long way to go.


These are my opinions, in response to Shivs question. I am not telling people NOT to buy it, or support it, nor am I saying it's a crap product. The Opensource tuning community is definitely alive and well, and this is a product that caters directly to them and some of those DIY'ers who want to tinker themselves. For them, this thing is a real nice concept.

If you're thinking of buying a tune, tuning software, hardware etc. Just make sure you know what you're buying, do research, ask questions, consider your future needs. There are multiple options and more will be coming to this market I'm sure. We will always be on the lookout to offer the best tuning solutions for our customers, we are defintiely not married to one platform.


-Tristan

Hi Tristan,
Thank you for the feedback. However I should point out that as of this past Friday, the OFT has the ability to display and graph live data. And logging to csv format is only a few data away. We spend quite a bit of time working out functions that don't require a laptop because using a laptop isn't always convenient. Which means that the OFT can (realtime) display and graph up to 13 channels at a time, on its touchscreen screen. Which, to me at least, makes it more useable than any other handheld device I've ever seen, mythical or otherwise.

The OFT is also able to control boosted applications. In the case of turbo kits, an external boost controller is required for electronic boost control at this time. But "at this time" just means at this time. There was a time when the OFT didn't offer datalogging, ffs or launch control. But it didn't take very long to implement those features. This stuff isn't rocket science. In the end, it all comes down to form factor, convenience and tuning option.

That said, we will soon be offering a "Tuner Package" that allows tuners to lock their OFT maps and even pre-load (up to 5) of them in OFT units that they can sell to users who don't want to use our OTS maps and would feel more comfortable working closely with a local tuner.

Best Regards
Shiv

[yuicebox]

@shiv@vishnu

just for clarity's sake, existing openflash tablet owners will be able to purchase these locked maps without purchasing new hardware, correct?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[Circuit Motorsports]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Hi Tristan,
Thank you for the feedback. However I should point out that as of this past Friday, the OFT has the ability to display and graph live data. And logging to csv format is only a few data away. We spend quite a bit of time working out functions that don't require a laptop because using a laptop isn't always convenient. Which means that the OFT can (realtime) display and graph up to 13 channels at a time, on its touchscreen screen. Which, to me at least, makes it more useable than any other handheld device I've ever seen, mythical or otherwise.

The OFT is also able to control boosted applications. In the case of turbo kits, an external boost controller is required for electronic boost control at this time. But "at this time" just means at this time. There was a time when the OFT didn't offer datalogging, ffs or launch control. But it didn't take very long to implement those features. This stuff isn't rocket science. In the end, it all comes down to form factor, convenience and tuning option.

That said, we will soon be offering a "Tuner Package" that allows tuners to lock their OFT maps and even pre-load (up to 5) of them in OFT units that they can sell to users who don't want to use our OTS maps and would feel more comfortable working closely with a local tuner.

Best Regards
Shiv

Yup, I saw your BETA Datalogging thread. You still can't log ALL the parameters necessary to monitor for a full tune though.

Right now, EcuTek is the only software that can control boost through an EBCS and the factory ECU, which is really the right and safe way to do it. Which is why I stated that.

The BRZ/FR-S is very complicated with it's DI/PI setup and there are a ton more maps to consider and control when tuning these cars, way more complicated than a WRX STI. A lot of guys have found this out the hard way using other opensource platforms.

So anything that "may" come in the future is vaporware to me, It's not there until it's there and proven. I wouldn't want to tell any of my customers to buy something based on future possibilities.

That said, Your "Tuner Package" is a good idea if you want other tuners to jump on board, and may help in that respect. We'll keep that in mind and keep an eye on the OFT's progress


-Tristan

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by Circuit Motorsports

Yup, I saw your BETA Datalogging thread. You still can't log ALL the parameters necessary to monitor for a full tune though.

Right now, EcuTek is the only software that can control boost through an EBCS and the factory ECU, which is really the right and safe way to do it. Which is why I stated that.

The BRZ/FR-S is very complicated with it's DI/PI setup and there are a ton more maps to consider and control when tuning these cars, way more complicated than a WRX STI. A lot of guys have found this out the hard way using other opensource platforms.

So anything that "may" come in the future is vaporware to me, It's not there until it's there and proven. I wouldn't want to tell any of my customers to buy something based on future possibilities.

That said, Your "Tuner Package" is a good idea if you want other tuners to jump on board, and may help in that respect. We'll keep that in mind and keep an eye on the OFT's progress


-Tristan

Tristan,
Could you tell me what channels you would need in order to be satisfied with tuning via OFT? I can probably have them added by the end of the week. I agree that ecutek is *currently* the only player in the game that can control boost within the factory ecu. I suspect they re enabled the vestigial boost control tables that are functional in the turbo subaru models. And I suspect it is only a matter of time before opensourcers do the same. At the end of the day, no single company can compete with a sizeable group of clever computer programmers doing development for fun. This has been the case in the Evo and WRX markets and will likely be the case in this one as well.

[canu_50]

Originally Posted by Circuit Motorsports

-The OFT business model is not setup at all for other tuners. I understand why, and I see the advantages for some people (ie. the DIY tuners), it's just not ideal for any oth[/COLOR][/FONT]er Pro-tuner to throw their tune in the hat and "give it away". Which is why there has been little, if any, support from the other "Pro tuners" in this community. I don't see it happening either, but things may change, who knows.




-Tristan

May i just say something, i was talking to couple of tuner in my area, and something they said when talking about locking tunes. They said, they never lock their file when using EMS.

Reason is that the Customer is paying for the tune, it's his, and if he want another tuner to have a look at is tune he has right now, he can go no problem.

If the other tuner, which the customer feel more comfortable with it, want to make some modification they can, with out starting over again.

Which i tought made sense, because in the end, we are the one paying for the tune. The tuner is delivering a product and from there i should be able to make my change when i want to!

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

@shiv@vishnu and this is why this guy is respected with tuning over multiple platforms keep up the good work


Sent from my IBrick

[Circuit Motorsports]

Originally Posted by canu_50

May i just say something, i was talking to couple of tuner in my area, and something they said when talking about locking tunes. They said, they never lock their file when using EMS.

Reason is that the Customer is paying for the tune, it's his, and if he want another tuner to have a look at is tune he has right now, he can go no problem.

If the other tuner, which the customer feel more comfortable with it, want to make some modification they can, with out starting over again.

Which i tought made sense, because in the end, we are the one paying for the tune. The tuner is delivering a product and from there i should be able to make my change when i want to!

This is really going to depend on who you talk to. I know quite a few tuners who will NOT, under any circumstances, modify another tuners tune.

If you pay a tuner to tune your car they will 9-times-out-of-10 start all over. This is to make sure they are starting fresh and not building on a tune that could have some hidden issues.

Now, if you have an unlocked tune, and you want to modify something yourself or have another tuner do something very minor, like scale a maf, they may do it.

But keep in mind: If you bring it to Tuner Z, and they try to add a few things to your tune by Tuner X, and the revision doesn't work well will what tuner X has already done- The new tuner is now responsible for any issues that pop up. Which is why most tuners will want to start over.

Every tuner has his or her way of doing things, there is no one way to tune a car. It's like an artist painting a picture haha.

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by canu_50

May i just say something, i was talking to couple of tuner in my area, and something they said when talking about locking tunes. They said, they never lock their file when using EMS.

Reason is that the Customer is paying for the tune, it's his, and if he want another tuner to have a look at is tune he has right now, he can go no problem.

If the other tuner, which the customer feel more comfortable with it, want to make some modification they can, with out starting over again.

Which i tought made sense, because in the end, we are the one paying for the tune. The tuner is delivering a product and from there i should be able to make my change when i want to!

This is my opinion as well. But since I was involved in the Ecutek business model at one time (over a decade ago), I can understand the option shared by Tristan. So we hope to provide for both side of the spectrum without sacrificing any of the functionality that makes the OFT so popular.

Cheers
shiv