The dreaded Automatic Transmission Feel

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by Anthony

What the hell was I thinking?

Yeah, but she likes FR-S's and lets you put carbon fiber racing seats in it and who knows what else. So, you're doing okay, I reckon.

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by Porsche

Exactly.

I alluded to that in an earlier post. The interest on his loan is not spread out evenly over the term of the loan; the first payment is almost all interest, and slowly diminishes until the final payment which is hardly any interest. The point I made to him is that his loan balance would not be much diminished over these first few months payments.

So, you're correct that he needs to factor that cost into his decision. This is actually likely to be "lost" on most customers who won't appreciate the "true cost" to make this trade. Most people will just look at their current payment, and compare it to their new payment following the trade (which will be back to payment no. 1 again). They won't realize how much that actually cost them just for the finance difference. Call it a "hidden" cost.

This is an excellent point, Dad!

People do this all the time re-financing houses shortly after buying them. "Oh, I can take off half a percent. That'll save me big money over 20 years." They don't think about the fact that they have been paying pretty much interest only for two or three years and they're throwing it all away. The friendly loan originator doesn't point that out to you.

[frslee]

Good luck on the even trading. I am so glad I've gone with manual transmission. There are people who appreciate AT and know how to fully have fun with those transmission. For me, manual had to be a must in this car.

pushing clutch, move gear, stomp on gas pedal at redline is just awesome.

[ShadowSeraph]

Originally Posted by chiefshayan

Appreciate the response. It's definitely something I have to seriously think about. I'm worried if I go forced induction and the torque becomes too much for my auto tranny to handle, I'll lose more money overall if I break my transmission and have to repair it. I'm happy I found a pre-owned with a bit more miles than my current car, I still think I'll take a hit, just not $3k. Going this weekend to talk prices.

Currently my car on KBB is worth around 19.5-20k trade in value. This manual car I want is around 23k but hopefully I can talk the price down. Most hit I'll take is 2k, more than that I'll just walk

I own an AT and most of the time I drive it in manual mode using the paddles anyway. The wife drives it in Auto mode.... anyway. There are AT's doing forced induction running 400WHP and doing fine. Look at P&L's shop car for example. I wouldn't worry about the torque so much unless you plan on going nuts with the HP and torque. It has been proven that the AT is beefy enough to handle more than what a stock MT clutch can handle.

[kuhlka]

Love my AT BRZ. Being in California, I think this guy needs to do a bit of driving in LA, San Diego, or San Francisco during rush hour in a manual. It might change his mind about pissing away a few grand or more. On a motorcycle you can split lanes. In a MT car, you're trapped. Honestly, the only reason to own a manual is for 400+whp, clutch kick drifting, or drag racing. Otherwise, 99.9% of the time you'll miss having the auto.

[ame]http://youtu.be/Rla3ivvg0Eo[/ame]

[peri.Laynz]

To the OP: If you plan on ever making huge power with this car, think about how difficult it might be controlling that power with a MT - There's a reason cars such as the R35 ONLY come in Auto.

FWIW, the engineers behind the twins did an enormous amount of research on every aspect of the car, and from what I understand, the AT transmission really is a beast of a transmission and something of a masterpiece as transmissions go.

[R.S-HawK]

/AT

[Porsche]

@chiefshayan, you will be just fine in a MT car, no matter how much power you manage to eek out of that 2.0L engine. Whether you lose control of your car has nothing to do with whether you're driving a manual or an automatic transmission car. Only the most bizarre situation would be required where it might make a difference. I cannot even imagine what that might be.

The "auto" in a Nissan GTR or a Porsche GT3 or a Ferrari 458 is not at all like the traditional automatic in your FR-S. Those cars are not auto at all; they employ computer controlled automated manual gearboxes with double clutches. They work like a pair of manual gearboxes in one assembly. Do your homework if that interests you.

The "auto" gearboxes in those cars are NOT there for "control," they're employed because those cars are designed for maximum performance numbers on a racetrack. These auto-manuals shift faster than any human can and save enough time on each lap around a racetrack to justify their use. They're faster around a race track, all other things being equal. Who cares, except a racer?

Actually, I care. I don't want a computer driving my car. I want to do it myself. Because I LIKE it! I couldn't care less that it costs me a few seconds per lap. It's me and my machine, the closer the connection, the better. It's not me and my COMPUTER driving my machine. Your personal preferences may vary, and that's just fine. I like New York Vanilla ice cream.

Anyway, moving right along…

You need not fear getting a manual gearbox FR-S.

The control issues, such as they are, are the same for an auto as a manual: Develop your skills and don't be stupid. You can do that, right?

Your throttle is not a binary device, not a switch; it should not be ON/OFF, but more like the volume control on an amplifier in your home sound system. It's a rheostat with a smooth progression throughout its range. Employ SMOOTH, progressive, throttle inputs.

It's not hard. There's nothing difficult about learning to drive a manual gearbox. Anyone can do it easily. People are needlessly fearful and make a big deal of it. That's just silly. In European countries everyone must learn to drive a manual to pass their driver's license test. None of them are any more "fearful" than they are about riding a bicycle.

It is just new and different, not difficult.

Fear not.


So, did you visit the dealer, yet, to discuss the trade?




P.S. Can you imagine your Ducati with an automatic transmission?

[chiefshayan]

I've driven the GTR around Laguna Seca and the shifts are blazing. Completely different animal. I've done a few open cockpit schools and those cars were some brutal old-school manuals. Around the track I'm fine with a manual, it's the steep hills with hours of traffic which I'm scared of. It was either a used 2008 m3 (first year they offered DCT) or the FRS. I chose the FRS because it was more tuner friendly and m3 would have been a hassle to maintain not to mention costly. Definitely made the correct choice in getting the FRS just a bit lost as to which what gearbox best suits me. I'm going to the dealer tomorrow morning, I'll report back. If it's under a grand or two difference, I'll be an owner of a manual FRS.. If not I'll wait for http://www.sspperformance.com/subaru-brz-frs-a960e.html to release their upgrades for the auto (final gear, torque converter). Either way it's a win-win!

[asdf]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

Love my AT BRZ. Being in California, I think this guy needs to do a bit of driving in LA, San Diego, or San Francisco during rush hour in a manual. It might change his mind about pissing away a few grand or more. On a motorcycle you can split lanes. In a MT car, you're trapped. Honestly, the only reason to own a manual is for 400+whp, clutch kick drifting, or drag racing. Otherwise, 99.9% of the time you'll miss having the auto.

did 40 mile each way rush hour commutes in LA/OC for years in a manual before selling my old car and getting an auto... definitely miss the manual transmission. never thought MT was a hassle sitting in stop and go traffic or going up hills through busy metropolitan areas. next car will definitely be a MT again.

like everybody has said, though, no car is going to give you the same exhilarating feeling that a bike does.

good luck @chiefshayan -- hope you find something close to an even trade

[JDMenrique]

I wouldn't let people behind a computer screen who have nothing vested in you to be giving you any kind of financial advice. I've seen people do some really silly things to their car to try to appease or gain this imaginary respect from a scene or forum.

I'm not saying you shouldn't go through with it, I'm suggesting you shouldn't give a shit about who bashes you.

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by Porsche

@chiefshayanActually, I care. I don't want a computer driving my car. I want to do it myself. Because I LIKE it! I couldn't care less that it costs me a few seconds per lap. It's me and my machine, the closer the connection, the better. It's not me and my COMPUTER driving my machine.

While you're on your machine crusade, you might want to rip out the ECU, install carbs, add a traditional steering rack, and remove the ABS/TC/ESC while you're at it. There are lots of electronic gadgets in the 86 getting in the way of you and your racing. /sarcasm

On a serious note, I've had fun with my auto BRZ doing autocross. It slides beautifully, and the only time I wish I had a manual is for take-off. Otherwise, the trans clicks through gears about as fast as I click through in my STI when it's set to manual+sport. (need to do a video to compare... oh hey it's nice out today...) Honestly, the automatic is the perfect 'lazy man's' driving car.

Originally Posted by chiefshayan

I've driven the GTR around Laguna Seca and the shifts are blazing. Completely different animal. I've done a few open cockpit schools and those cars were some brutal old-school manuals. Around the track I'm fine with a manual, it's the steep hills with hours of traffic which I'm scared of. It was either a used 2008 m3 (first year they offered DCT) or the FRS. I chose the FRS because it was more tuner friendly and m3 would have been a hassle to maintain not to mention costly. Definitely made the correct choice in getting the FRS just a bit lost as to which what gearbox best suits me. I'm going to the dealer tomorrow morning, I'll report back. If it's under a grand or two difference, I'll be an owner of a manual FRS.. If not I'll wait for http://www.sspperformance.com/subaru-brz-frs-a960e.html to release their upgrades for the auto (final gear, torque converter). Either way it's a win-win!

If you're not going for twin turbo Supra power, it looks like the auto trans can handle well over 300 whp from what people have been posting up. I'll probably go with the JR supercharger when it comes time to boost. Honestly though, being in California I'd get a motorcycle, a 1-piece suit, and get your thrills railing canyon roads like Mulholland. Going fast on a motorcycle is a lot cheaper, but obviously more dangerous if you don't train your ass off so you can predict sketchy situations and avoid them before they happen.

[chiefshayan]

Update: Appreciate everyones comments, I'm happy no one got too disrespectful like i've seen on some other car forums when people get an automatic.

Went to the dealer, test drove the manual and it was interesting. I test drove is in San Francisco during traffic, and didn't really get to enjoy it. It's very hill-y and once I got back into my auto at the end of the day, I felt more relaxed and comfortable. If anyone is interested trading in their auto to manual DONT, simply because you would lose 6-7 grand. I was shocked, but I understand because at the end of the day they're a business and need to make money. I'm more than happy with my auto frs, I'll save the canyon runs for my bikes. I'm thinking of selling my CBR and going for a new BMW s1000rr

Thanks for all your help on the forum, it was a good experience to see the manual in person and feel it, I can see why people buy the manual. Now I'm going to go spoil my frs with gifts and hope she forgives me

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by chiefshayan

Update: Appreciate everyones comments, I'm happy no one got too disrespectful like i've seen on some other car forums when people get an automatic.

Went to the dealer, test drove the manual and it was interesting. I test drove is in San Francisco during traffic, and didn't really get to enjoy it. It's very hill-y and once I got back into my auto at the end of the day, I felt more relaxed and comfortable. If anyone is interested trading in their auto to manual DONT, simply because you would lose 6-7 grand. I was shocked, but I understand because at the end of the day they're a business and need to make money. I'm more than happy with my auto frs, I'll save the canyon runs for my bikes. I'm thinking of selling my CBR and going for a new BMW s1000rr

Thanks for all your help on the forum, it was a good experience to see the manual in person and feel it, I can see why people buy the manual. Now I'm going to go spoil my frs with gifts and hope she forgives me

Good decision!