Autocar: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta vs Toyota GT86 - which is more fun?

[n2oinferno]

tl;dr: if won lottery, F12 would be had.

[jack43]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Fit slightly stiffer springs and shocks to match and the BRZ could easily handle 400 bhp. The car would still weigh less than 3,000 lbs. I think you'll be in F12 territory by then.

I was impressed that the f12 isn't more of a pig: the 3594lb curb weight isn't bad for what it is.
With 730bhp = 4.63 lb/hp

For parity the twins at 2750lbs would need 475whp (594 crank).

Anyway I think the similarity stops there.. 'What's more comfortable, a Park ave penthouse or a cardboard box in Central Park?'

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Suberman

We shall see. Horsepower and speed are becoming very unfashionable and we may be seeing the end of the true supercar as we have known it. There is nowhere to drive them.

What on earth makes you say that? You can get more horsepower and performance now, for less money, than pretty much ever before.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by chrisl

What on earth makes you say that? You can get more horsepower and performance now, for less money, than pretty much ever before.

Just wait and see.

James May has a fairly clever article on the Top Gear site about "improving" his Ferrari 458.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Just wait and see.

James May has a fairly clever article on the Top Gear site about "improving" his Ferrari 458.

Or you could actually provide some evidence supporting your position. As for James May's article? Sure, that's one guy's opinion. I even think he has a point - a small, lightweight, front-engined Ferrari would be wonderful. But, that's not where the market is heading right now. If that were an article from Ferrari talking about their future, that would be one thing, but instead, what we have from Ferrari is an even more powerful, faster, and more ludicrous than ever before supercar (the LaFerrari).

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by chrisl

Or you could actually provide some evidence supporting your position. As for James May's article? Sure, that's one guy's opinion. I even think he has a point - a small, lightweight, front-engined Ferrari would be wonderful. But, that's not where the market is heading right now. If that were an article from Ferrari talking about their future, that would be one thing, but instead, what we have from Ferrari is an even more powerful, faster, and more ludicrous than ever before supercar (the LaFerrari).

Which market?

The European market has been going this way for years now. Turbo diesel is king. Gasoline powered cars sell in tiny numbers.

China has no interest in horsepower and that's where the market is right now.

You are seeing the last of the big engined supercars my friend. McLaren is pointing the direction.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Suberman

You are seeing the last of the big engined supercars my friend. McLaren is pointing the direction.

Mclaren is pointing the direction towards horsepower and speed becoming unfashionable? You do know that their latest car has nine hundred and three horsepower, right?

[thill]

I think the guy was spot on at the end. Obviously if you have the money to buy the F12 you can buy a GT86. So buy both. As he said, start the day with the GT86 to warm up and then move to the F12 later in the day.

Sounds good to me

As for daily driving, nobody drives an F12 as a daily driver. For one, you would get your license pulled within a few months, and for two, these cars are too expensive to be parking at the Target parking lot or driving around town. They are meant to be stored in a garage on display and driven occasionally like Jay Leno.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by chrisl

Mclaren is pointing the direction towards horsepower and speed becoming unfashionable? You do know that their latest car has nine hundred and three horsepower, right?

You also realize that only 6 people in the entire world will buy one and that the engine is under 4.0 litres displacement.

Look at what the industry in general is building: small engine, speed limited cars geared to low fuel consumption.

Supercars are going in the same direction.

Society in general is getting very intolerant of fast driving. Two provinces in Canada have seize it and crush it legislation for speeding offences over 25 mph over the posted limit. Just for example. The French are getting really testy about speeding. Even Germany has a courtesy limit and an agreement among manufacturers to limit top speeds electronically.

It's coming everywhere. Buy your supercar now if you can find somewhere to drive it. I sold my very quick chipped and modded B5 Audi S4 partly for this reason. But then again, I'm a visionary.

[AznKirby]

Originally Posted by Suberman

You also realize that only 6 people in the entire world will buy one and that the engine is under 4.0 litres displacement.

Look at what the industry in general is building: small engine, speed limited cars geared to low fuel consumption.

Supercars are going in the same direction.

Society in general is getting very intolerant of fast driving. Two provinces in Canada have seize it and crush it legislation for speeding offences over 25 mph over the posted limit. Just for example. The French are getting really testy about speeding. Even Germany has a courtesy limit and an agreement among manufacturers to limit top speeds electronically.

It's coming everywhere. Buy your supercar now if you can find somewhere to drive it. I sold my very quick chipped and modded B5 Audi S4 partly for this reason. But then again, I'm a visionary.

I died

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by AznKirby

I died

Sheldon Cooper.

Google it.