FA20 vs. Cayman engine? Need ur backup.

[qqzj]

Today had a heated debate on FA20 vs. the engine of Cayman. I was trying to argue that if FA20 becomes a 6-cylinder engine, it would be equal or better than Cayman's. In the end, I do not think I won, but I do not think I lost either. So need ur guys' support to win the argument.

Simply put,
Cayman，2.7L H6 275HP, 101HP/L, 213lb-ft, 79lb-ft/L
Cayman S, 3.4L 325HP, 96PH/L, 273 lb-ft, 81lb-ft/L
FA20, 2.0L, 200HP, 100HP/L, 151lb-ft, 76lb-ft/L

All engines' torque curves have a dip early and have a flat top from 4500rpm to 6500rpm.

On the HP side, it seems that larger cylinder always loses a little. So we are fine. We lose a little on torque/liter, but that is a minor issue. Anybody can help me win the argument?

[fatoni]

i dont think engines provide a linear relationship between power and size. its why any car that ever put out 120ish hp/liter is either a tiny motor or a six figure car. its a hypothetical argument that would be won or lost based on further hypotheticals. if you assume the fa20 would be engineered to be better, you win. if not, you lose.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by qqzj

Today had a heated debate on FA20 vs. the engine of Cayman. I was trying to argue that if FA20 becomes a 6-cylinder engine, it would be equal or better than Cayman's. In the end, I do not think I won, but I do not think I lost either. So need ur guys' support to win the argument.

Simply put,
Cayman，2.7L H6 275HP, 101HP/L, 213lb-ft, 79lb-ft/L
Cayman S, 3.4L 325HP, 96PH/L, 273 lb-ft, 81lb-ft/L
FA20, 2.0L, 200HP, 100HP/L, 151lb-ft, 76lb-ft/L

All engines' torque curves have a dip early and have a flat top from 4500rpm to 6500rpm.

On the HP side, it seems that larger cylinder always loses a little. So we are fine. We lose a little on torque/liter, but that is a minor issue. Anybody can help me win the argument?

What makes you say that the FA20 is better? It looks to me like all 3 of them are pretty similar in output per liter, with the Cayman engines perhaps slightly ahead in torque...

As for the larger cylinder losing a bit? I suspect a bit of that is simply due to Porsche not wanting to overlap too much with the base 911, which makes 350hp out of a 3.4L (which is probably nearly the same engine as the 325hp one in the Cayman S).

[NWFRS]

My favorite engines are the FA20 and Fiat's little 1800cc DOHC. Horsepowers and torques are just numbers. I win. The end. :-D

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by NWFRS

My favorite engines are the FA20 and Fiat's little 1800cc DOHC. Horsepowers and torques are just numbers. I win. The end. :-D

Originally Posted by chrisl

What makes you say that the FA20 is better? It looks to me like all 3 of them are pretty similar in output per liter, with the Cayman engines perhaps slightly ahead in torque...

As for the larger cylinder losing a bit? I suspect a bit of that is simply due to Porsche not wanting to overlap too much with the base 911, which makes 350hp out of a 3.4L (which is probably nearly the same engine as the 325hp one in the Cayman S).

Everybody knows that engine is gimped from the factory because a Cayman S would stomp the 911 if it had a real engine.

[Kostamojen]

I'd recommend using the Subaru EZ30 as a benchmark as well. It put out 250hp with a 3.0L WITHOUT direct injection or a high compression ratio!

Some Porsche guys have actually used those Subaru motors in place of expensive Porsche motors...

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by qqzj

Today had a heated debate on FA20 vs. the engine of Cayman. I was trying to argue that if FA20 becomes a 6-cylinder engine, it would be equal or better than Cayman's. In the end, I do not think I won, but I do not think I lost either. So need ur guys' support to win the argument.

Simply put,
Cayman，2.7L H6 275HP, 101HP/L, 213lb-ft, 79lb-ft/L
Cayman S, 3.4L 325HP, 96PH/L, 273 lb-ft, 81lb-ft/L
FA20, 2.0L, 200HP, 100HP/L, 151lb-ft, 76lb-ft/L

All engines' torque curves have a dip early and have a flat top from 4500rpm to 6500rpm.

On the HP side, it seems that larger cylinder always loses a little. So we are fine. We lose a little on torque/liter, but that is a minor issue. Anybody can help me win the argument?

You are correct. Porsche needs to sharpen up a little to keep up.

Just BTW, a six will fit easily into the BRZ engine compartment. And Subaru already makes a 3.0 six.....

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by chrisl

What makes you say that the FA20 is better? It looks to me like all 3 of them are pretty similar in output per liter, with the Cayman engines perhaps slightly ahead in torque...

As for the larger cylinder losing a bit? I suspect a bit of that is simply due to Porsche not wanting to overlap too much with the base 911, which makes 350hp out of a 3.4L (which is probably nearly the same engine as the 325hp one in the Cayman S).

"Nearly"?

It is exactly the same engine. Porsche won't let the Cayman have equal power because that would illustrate perfectly what everyone already knows: the 911 is an inherently stupid design.

[qqzj]

yes, but that will make BRZ too nose heavy. how to deal with that?

Originally Posted by Suberman

You are correct. Porsche needs to sharpen up a little to keep up.

Just BTW, a six will fit easily into the BRZ engine compartment. And Subaru already makes a 3.0 six.....

[Tgionet]

Originally Posted by Suberman

"Nearly"?

It is exactly the same engine. Porsche won't let the Cayman have equal power because that would illustrate perfectly what everyone already knows: the 911 is an inherently stupid design.

[czar07]

Originally Posted by Suberman

"Nearly"?

It is exactly the same engine. Porsche won't let the Cayman have equal power because that would illustrate perfectly what everyone already knows: the 911 is an inherently stupid design.

yeah everyone's known that for the 50 years its been in production

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by czar07

yeah everyone's known that for the 50 years its been in production

There's a racer's saying: you can't make a race horse out of a pig, but if you spend enough money you can make a very fast pig.....

Takes a while also.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by qqzj

yes, but that will make BRZ too nose heavy. how to deal with that?

Transaxle?

Move the battery to the trunk?

Don't worry about it since the rear tires will be smoking most of the time anyway?

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Suberman

"Nearly"?

It is exactly the same engine. Porsche won't let the Cayman have equal power because that would illustrate perfectly what everyone already knows: the 911 is an inherently stupid design.

To be fair, the 911 has a significantly less restrictive intake than the Cayman, but I can't imagine that accounts for more than 5 or 10 horsepower - most of the 25hp difference has got to be in tuning (unless they have different cams, but that would be a lot of effort just to differentiate the 911 and the Cayman).

As for the stupidity of the 911 design? The new ones are quite good - the amount of grip they have coming out of corners due to the weight over the rear is pretty astonishing. Also, I know a fair number of 911 owners to whom the rear seat was an important factor in their purchase decision, and the Cayman would never work for that. I wish they'd bring out a higher end model of the Cayman too though - a Cayman GT3 would have a lot of potential.