Autocar: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta vs Toyota GT86 - which is more fun?

[mufasis]

I have had many nice cars but this BRZ is probably the most fun. It's such a well balanced car and even though the 0-60 time isnt great the car still can carry a ton of speed through turns and isnt bad from a roll. I love that its being compared to the F12. Who gives a shit if it cost 10x as much. This car offers bare bones rwd fun for 1/10th of the price, I would call that something to brag about.....

[troek]

I traded in my 458 italia for my 86 based on fun factor

[Dazza]

Originally Posted by chrisl

In other news, let's compare the 911 GT3 to the original VW beetle (hey, they're both rear engine, right?), and an MR2 to a Ferrari 458...

its been done. the MR2 was compared with a Ferrari in period (I have at least one article)

Originally Posted by troek

I traded in my 458 italia for my 86 based on fun factor

I hope you got a decent deal and didn't pay too much extra to get into the 86

[troek]

Strait swapped it dawg. At first they didnt want it because my Ferrari was IDM as F@%# but since the 86 isnt selling well they went for it. I even got em to throw in the trd body kit, the suckers.

[Dazza]

Originally Posted by troek

Strait swapped it dawg. At first they didnt want it because my Ferrari was IDM as F@%# but since the 86 isnt selling well they went for it. I even got em to throw in the trd body kit, the suckers.

Well done!!

[Boblhead]

Originally Posted by hiroanz

Get both!! The option list on this F12 Berlinetta is enough for 2~3 GT86's.

http://jalopnik.com/ferrari-will-cha...upho-898949796

So the real question: Is a GT86 more fun than a F12 Berlinetta's cup holder, dash insert, rear bench trim and driver zone LEDs?

for some reason I feel if I had a fucking f12 I wouldn't want people drinking inside of it for risks of spills on that fucking leather T_T

[bunny86]

£240,000 would get you a GT86 (£25k) and another £25k would give you enough aftermarket goodies to get you round Snetterton as quick as the F12 Berlinetta.

[ZDan]

On the street, 90% of the time, you're not going to be able to go any quicker or faster in the Ferrari. For that usage, I bet the 86 is more fun to drive in some fundamental ways than the F12.

[Dadhawk]

My answer to the question which is more "fun" for me to drive is rather simple.

If the two cars have similar driving characteristics (discounting top speed which is only marginally interesting to me) the 86 will always be more fun to drive than the Ferrari.

Why, because I will be 10x more willing to push the FR-S around the track at its limits risking its bodywork.

This is independent of my personal wealth in relationship to the cost of the car.

I validate this (at least for myself) by looking at it backwards. If I had a $2,500 1985 MR2 and my $25,000 FR-S, I would be beat the crap out of the MR-2 on the track without concern (other than personal harm) of wrecking it. I know I'd keep more distance from the wall/track edge with the FR-S.

Just my warped way of looking at the world.

[DarkSunrise]

These kinds of comparisons are always really interesting to me. In terms of being driver's cars, the BRZ/FR-S do pretty much everything right. Balance, steering, handling, responsiveness, shifter feel, brake feel, and seating position. Those are the key elements, and the BRZ/FR-S/GT86 are nearly perfect in those areas.

But those things are much easier to get right when you're only dealing with 200 hp. That's why the BRZ/FR-S matches up so well against higher-priced machines in these kinds of "best driver's car" tests. And I suppose that was the philosophy behind the 86, that a minimalist driver's car with only 200 hp can be more enjoyable to drive than a massive-tired, 300+ hp machine. And I've found that to be the case from personal ownership experience (FR-S vs. STI).

But I'm not convinced the philosophy holds up when comparing against something like a 730 hp Ferrari because at some point, being a better driver's car may not be enough. On the whole, the GT86 might arguably match the Ferrari at being a driver's car (which would be quite an accomplishment for Ferrari considering its engineers had to deal with cranking out, managing, and slowing 730 hp), but fundamentally you can't ignore the 530 hp difference between the two. It's the massive pink elephant in the room that this test tries to ignore, and probably shouldn't. The brutal sensation of acceleration and the accompanying sound that the Ferrari makes has to count for something and, in all likelihood, should count for a whole lot.

It's why I think this test is flawed, and why no one in their right minds would take a GT86 over a Ferrari.

The only argument I can see for taking the GT86 as a track car is the cost of maintaining the Ferrari and the risk of putting it into a wall at the track. There's also possibly an argument that it's more fun wringing 100% out of a GT86 at the track vs. babying a 730 hp Ferrari (a case of too much horsepower), but I'm not sure how much merit that one has... and I probably won't know unless someone lets me cane a Ferrari around a track.

Anyway interesting test, but ultimately flawed IMO.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by chaoskaze

..... they just making this to generate hits, don't fall for the trap.

Didn't you just....?

[Suberman]

As for the BRZ being good only because it is "underpowered" I think you'll find a good chassis is a good chassis pretty much regardless of engine power. Modern nutters running turbos and superchargers never complain that the chassis can't handle the extra power. They fit better tires and off they go in perfect control. Indeed, with a 2.5 turbo motor I think the BRZ could embarrass the F12 as it can any Porsche.

There is little doubt the F12 has far too much power to use in bends, as the video explains, whereas the BRZ can put almost all of its power down all of the time, assuming you fit proper tires.

Given the reality of street driving not having to slow down for bends is a big entertainment plus.

As for choosing a car to drive every day I think the BRZ beats the F12 again.

[Noob4Life]

Ive never seen videos comparing the s2000 nor nissian Z series' to lotus', Ferraris or other cars costing at least 2x as much. Just sayin, there's something about this car that keeps people wanting to do comparison videos. Makes me pretty darn proud to own one lol

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Suberman

As for the BRZ being good only because it is "underpowered" I think you'll find a good chassis is a good chassis pretty much regardless of engine power. Modern nutters running turbos and superchargers never complain that the chassis can't handle the extra power. They fit better tires and off they to in perfect control. Indeed, with a 2.5 turbo motor I think the BRZ could embarrass the F12 as it can any Porsche.

That's true to a point. But fit the FR-S/BRZ with 730 hp, plus the upgraded cooling, brakes, transmission, differential, bushings, suspension, and tires necessary to support that, and it'll be much, much harder to make it the driver's car that it is currently is.

This was one of the points the editors of MT brought up when they were doing the best driver's car competition of 2012. The BRZ was great and placed 4th (apparently Pobst wanted it as high as 2nd), but it only had 200 hp to manage. Yes the chassis could probably handle another 70-100 hp and maintain its current competence, but what about beyond that? Because that's really where the big dogs roam.