>>>Bilstein B16/PSS10 Coilover - US Release<<<

[swift996]

Originally Posted by FT-86 SpeedFactory

B16/PSS10 are in stock now.

B14/PSS is on backorder, but more are due stateside mid-November.

Do you know if these are going to be offered in the IRC variant (ride control)? I saw the IRC version on the latest SCCA magazine, can control dampening from an iphone, pretty cool.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by CSG David

The listed MSRP is $3500. It does not mean the listed sale price will reflect the MSRP, unless they're telling us otherwise.

Most 1-way suspension systems have very little changes in between clicks. These PSS10 have just been released by Bilstein, so I cannot provide any comments regarding the damper adjustability on this particular application.

These are nice, but for 3.5K there are other choices with much more features and hardware included. 2400 sounds more reasonable for what they are offering IMO.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by solidONE

These are nice, but for 3.5K there are other choices with much more features and hardware included. 2400 sounds more reasonable for what they are offering IMO.

True story. Just PM me if you've got any questions.

[mike156]

Originally Posted by Hanakuso

That's pretty spot on. It's listed on tirerack for $2394 + shipping. Seems very expensive compared to my PSS9, which were around $1200 7-8 years ago

Originally Posted by Ro_Ja

I have heard/read that Bilstein's damper adjustability isn't the greatest (not much, if any, change between adjustments; essentially worthless). People have likened it to a simple on/off switch. Is that still the case?

The PSS9 adjuster is reported as being a switch and is complete garbage. It was a basic bleed adjuster that was very unpredictable, I don't think any new applications use that adjuster any more. The PSS10 is a COMPELTELY DIFFERENT adjuster. The PSS10 uses the Motorsports (MDS/Clubsports) adjuster that is used in their high end race supsension systems. It's quality and that's why they are considerably more expensive. Yes, it's a "1-way" adjuster, but it's likely a useful adjuster unlike the adjusters on SO MANY other shocks. I think the Motorsports shaft with single adjuster is like $350 alone if you wanted to upgrade a standard shock to use the high end shaft. The 2-way is even more expensive.

http://www.bilsteinus.com/products/b...in-clubsportr/
http://www.bilsteinus.com/products/m.../bilstein-mds/

It would be awesome to see some dyno charts of these to see just how effective the "1-way" adjuster is. I put that in quotes as it sounds like it was designed to do lockstep adjustment on rebound and compression, which would likely be what most would really be after. Lock it down for track use, open it up for the street. This really means it's a 2-way adjuster but does not allow independent adjustment. Most 1-ways TRY to adjust only rebound or only compression and not affect the other. The cheaper stuff always has unintentional cross talk though. If Bilstein intentional designed these adjusters to change rebound and compression in proportional manner and pull it off, you are getting a lot more for your money then you realize.

[JDKane527]

Would these 1-way adjusters be able to be rebuilt with 2-way adjusters down the line?

[RYU]

Originally Posted by mike156

The PSS9 adjuster is reported as being a switch and is complete garbage. It was a basic bleed adjuster that was very unpredictable, I don't think any new applications use that adjuster any more. The PSS10 is a COMPELTELY DIFFERENT adjuster. The PSS10 uses the Motorsports (MDS/Clubsports) adjuster that is used in their high end race supsension systems. It's quality and that's why they are considerably more expensive. Yes, it's a "1-way" adjuster, but it's likely a useful adjuster unlike the adjusters on SO MANY other shocks. I think the Motorsports shaft with single adjuster is like $350 alone if you wanted to upgrade a standard shock to use the high end shaft. The 2-way is even more expensive.

http://www.bilsteinus.com/products/b...in-clubsportr/
http://www.bilsteinus.com/products/m.../bilstein-mds/

It would be awesome to see some dyno charts of these to see just how effective the "1-way" adjuster is. I put that in quotes as it sounds like it was designed to do lockstep adjustment on rebound and compression, which would likely be what most would really be after. Lock it down for track use, open it up for the street. This really means it's a 2-way adjuster but does not allow independent adjustment. Most 1-ways TRY to adjust only rebound or only compression and not affect the other. The cheaper stuff always has unintentional cross talk though. If Bilstein intentional designed these adjusters to change rebound and compression in proportional manner and pull it off, you are getting a lot more for your money then you realize.

This is very good to hear since i've read that same sentiment on the on/off comment. In other words, it's useless as an adjustment tool. It seems the PSS10 is different. I hope you're right!

A properly tuned 1-way adjuster is the holy grail (for me), especially for a street car. I have a set of properly tuned 1-way coilovers for my other vehicle and when tuned right it's very convenient and functional. I'm too old to mess with 2-ways anymore and have been spoiled with my 1-ways. I'm willing to pay for a company to find that proper cross-over point between bump/rebound and fix that in a linear 1-way adjustment knob. God... I hope finally Bilstein has done this. All the other 1-ways out in the market now have been extremely underwhelming.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by RYU

This is very good to hear since i've read that same sentiment on the on/off comment. In other words, it's useless as an adjustment tool. It seems the PSS10 is different. I hope you're right!

A properly tuned 1-way adjuster is the holy grail (for me), especially for a street car. I have a set of properly tuned 1-way coilovers for my other vehicle and when tuned right it's very convenient and functional. I'm too old to mess with 2-ways anymore and have been spoiled with my 1-ways. I'm willing to pay for a company to find that proper cross-over point between bump/rebound and fix that in a linear 1-way adjustment knob. God... I hope finally Bilstein has done this. All the other 1-ways out in the market now have been extremely underwhelming.

Have you considered the Ohlins? I know I've mentioned them to you before as being a good fit. Bilstein PSS10 should be as well, definitely on the softer side in comparison.

- Andy

[RYU]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Have you considered the Ohlins? I know I've mentioned them to you before as being a good fit. Bilstein PSS10 should be as well, definitely on the softer side in comparison.

- Andy

Hi Andy,

You know that when you talk, I listen

Ohlins R&T has always been a last resort for me simply because I can't imagine spending that much on a coilover for this car. It's a last resort at the moment but it's nice to know it's just a matter of money and a good coilover exists.

The B14s are actually very interesting for me. They are cheap and I really could do w/o the adjustment as long as Bilstein has found a happy medium with the damping for the streets. I just don't want to be the guinea pig anymore. The B14s I rode in here in LA were firm but in a good way. They were more firm in the small/med bumps but handled the big bumps very well and did not "freak out" and be bumpstop happy when those big bumps hit. I'm happy with that compromise. My concern is... The versions that I tried were Euro Spec B14s revalved by Bilstein USA so, in fact, they may not be the same B14s that everyone else is buying now.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by RYU

Hi Andy,

You know that when you talk, I listen

Ohlins R&T has always been a last resort for me simply because I can't imagine spending that much on a coilover for this car. It's a last resort at the moment but it's nice to know it's just a matter of money and a good coilover exists.

The B14s are actually very interesting for me. They are cheap and I really could do w/o the adjustment as long as Bilstein has found a happy medium with the damping for the streets. I just don't want to be the guinea pig anymore. The B14s I rode in here in LA were firm but in a good way. They were more firm in the small/med bumps but handled the big bumps very well and did not "freak out" and be bumpstop happy when those big bumps hit. I'm happy with that compromise. My concern is... The versions that I tried were Euro Spec B14s revalved by Bilstein USA so, in fact, they may not be the same B14s that everyone else is buying now.

Ah yeah, there is that whole budget thing.

The Bilsteins might be a good for you. What you describe is the classic Bilstein feel I'm used to and that I really like. Big bumps are just dealt with in a very controlled way that is very reassuring. If I were you I'd try to get a ride on a production set BUT I don't think you'd be disappointed either way.

Worst case scenario you can have them rebuilt!

- Andy

[RYU]

I wonder how effective the adjustment range is on the B16/PSS10. Logically, because the damper stroke is so short on the rear, they have to increase the damping just to be able to cope with those big bumps. Which makes me question how soft is soft on the B16. They can't go that soft because the damper would have a tough time coping with the bigger bumps.

In short, I'm skeptical of how wide the range of adjustment is on the B16. If I had to take a wild, uneducated, guess i'm going to guess the B16 at it's softest setting is medium firm while firmest setting is really firm. Where as the B14 is just medium firm out of the box. I don't think the B16 can be set to soft w/o sacrificing high speed bump compression damping with such a short stroke like they can in other cars.

Let me know if you guys think i'm off base here. Its all speculation (darn it!)

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by RYU

I wonder how effective the adjustment range is on the B16/PSS10. Logically, because the damper stroke is so short on the rear, they have to increase the damping just to be able to cope with those big bumps. Which makes me question how soft is soft on the B16. They can't go that soft because the damper would have a tough time coping with the bigger bumps.

In short, I'm skeptical of how wide the range of adjustment is on the B16. If I had to take a wild, uneducated, guess i'm going to guess the B16 at it's softest setting is medium firm while firmest setting is really firm. Where as the B14 is just medium firm out of the box. I don't think the B16 can be set to soft w/o sacrificing high speed bump compression damping with such a short stroke like they can in other cars.

Let me know if you guys think i'm off base here. Its all speculation (darn it!)

You may be on to something but it's hard to tell from here. Some of the 2 ways we've seen from Bilstein do have a fairly narrow range. Also, the rear spring rates are firmer than I expected from them. They will still ride very very well though. You need a ride.

- Andy

[mike156]

Came across this article from 2010 PRI when Bilstein USA first released the new adjuster.

http://www.onedirt.com/news/pri-2010-bilstein-shocks-new-10-way-single-adjustable-shock-shaft/

As noted, it can have a check valve to allow control over only one direction or it can be ran without a check valve to allow adjustment to both compression and rebound at the same time.

It should be pointed out, bleed adjusters (like most adjusters on the market) have relatively minor effect on high speed damping. The high speed damping is controlled by the main valve stack. This is a good thing, as handling characteristics are primarily dependent on low speed damping. If you aren't changing spring rate or significantly changing unsprung mass, you really have no reason to change high speed damping.

The chart in that link has a check valve and the complete lack of crosstalk is impressive. The range of adjustment is also considerable and the difference between settings is reasonably smooth. It would be interesting to see how consistent one shaft is to the next. Bilstein shim stacks are SPOT ON. If they can match that consistency in their bleeders, you are getting a professional quality product here.

[autobrz]

Originally Posted by RYU

I don't think the B16 can be set to soft w/o sacrificing high speed bump compression damping with such a short stroke like they can in other cars.

Will the robispec rear top mounts help the bilsteins with bump travel?

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by mike156

Came across this article from 2010 PRI when Bilstein USA first released the new adjuster.

http://www.onedirt.com/news/pri-2010-bilstein-shocks-new-10-way-single-adjustable-shock-shaft/

As noted, it can have a check valve to allow control over only one direction or it can be ran without a check valve to allow adjustment to both compression and rebound at the same time.

It should be pointed out, bleed adjusters (like most adjusters on the market) have relatively minor effect on high speed damping. The high speed damping is controlled by the main valve stack. This is a good thing, as handling characteristics are primarily dependent on low speed damping. If you aren't changing spring rate or significantly changing unsprung mass, you really have no reason to change high speed damping.

The chart in that link has a check valve and the complete lack of crosstalk is impressive. The range of adjustment is also considerable and the difference between settings is reasonably smooth. It would be interesting to see how consistent one shaft is to the next. Bilstein shim stacks are SPOT ON. If they can match that consistency in their bleeders, you are getting a professional quality product here.

Thanks for the link!

- Andy