Vs bmw 2 series

[thill]

Originally Posted by AsianStyle

I've yet to see a review that portrays the genesis coupe in a positive light compared to its competitors. Where as most bmws (Not including the recent 3/4 series) are praised for their handling and feel.

I do hear a lot of criticisms on the genesis' poor transmission and handling. The two pros you mention interior and hp/tq was far from my top priorities for my next car. If they were why would I have picked up a FRS?

If I really cared about hp/tq or even track times per cost. I think the mustang would be a much more logical choice.

The Gencoupe's manual transmission is vague, but they do offer an eight speed automatic that is pretty decent. The 2 Series does not offer a manual unless you step up to the M series.

I have not driven a 2 Series, but I have driven a 1 Series and numerous Gencoupes (I owned one) and an RSPEC Gencoupe handled better for me. I honestly thought the BMW 1 Series was way overrated from a drivers car standpoint. But it is a BMW so it has a refined engine and interior and of course that BMW badge .... People will pay a lot for a badge...

[AsianStyle]

Originally Posted by thill

The Gencoupe's manual transmission is vague, but they do offer an eight speed automatic that is pretty decent. The 2 Series does not offer a manual unless you step up to the M series.

I have not driven a 2 Series, but I have driven a 1 Series and numerous Gencoupes (I owned one) and an RSPEC Gencoupe handled better for me. I honestly thought the BMW 1 Series was way overrated from a drivers car standpoint. But it is a BMW so it has a refined engine and interior and of course that BMW badge .... People will pay a lot for a badge...

I thought the 135/335s handled pretty well. I was more interested in the 1m, but the mark up was crazy. The m235 isn't the same as the 1m/2m. Instead its more of a packaging thing like the m135 sold in europe. I never really gave the genesis a hard look due to the weight. Same reason I decided to go with the twins over the bmws. It's a shame that the bmws are getting heavier each year. Did you own a 2013 3.8 rspec? What made you swap cars?

[thill]

Originally Posted by AsianStyle

I thought the 135/335s handled pretty well. I was more interested in the 1m, but the mark up was crazy. The m235 isn't the same as the 1m/2m. Instead its more of a packaging thing like the m135 sold in europe. I never really gave the genesis a hard look due to the weight. Same reason I decided to go with the twins over the bmws. It's a shame that the bmws are getting heavier each year. Did you own a 2013 3.8 rspec? What made you swap cars?

I owned a 2013 Gencoupe 2.0T. Had it for 14 months then test drove the BRZ and that was that The Gencoupe is definitely up on power, but the BRZ is the drivers car. Better handling, steering feel, shifter, etc. I never was happy with the weight of the Gencope and wanted something lighter and more nimble. The Gencoupe was not a bad car at all, and it is the only car that Hyundai sells that still uses a hydraulic power steering pump in. 10yr 100K mile warranty was nice too..

The 2.0T Gencoupe weighed about 100 more pounds than the BMW 1 series but it also had almost 80 more hp and 75 more ft lbs of torque. It was almost $10K cheaper. I honestly felt let down by the BMW, and I previously owned BMW's in the past, but I feel that BMW is losing their soul with their newer cars vs previous generations.

[AsianStyle]

Originally Posted by thill

I owned a 2013 Gencoupe 2.0T. Had it for 14 months then test drove the BRZ and that was that The Gencoupe is definitely up on power, but the BRZ is the drivers car. Better handling, steering feel, shifter, etc. I never was happy with the weight of the Gencope and wanted something lighter and more nimble. The Gencoupe was not a bad car at all, and it is the only car that Hyundai sells that still uses a hydraulic power steering pump in. 10yr 100K mile warranty was nice too..

The 2.0T Gencoupe weighed about 100 more pounds than the BMW 1 series but it also had almost 80 more hp and 75 more ft lbs of torque. It was almost $10K cheaper. I honestly felt let down by the BMW, and I previously owned BMW's in the past, but I feel that BMW is losing their soul with their newer cars vs previous generations.

Yea, I agree bmw is headed in the wrong direction. Several reviews state the cadillac ATS out bmws the bmws.

I know the 128i has 230hp/200ft-lbs and 135i has 300hp/300ft-lbs. Doesn't the genesis 2.0T have 275hp/275ft-lb? Also, I believe the 128i's standard suspension is different from the 135i's suspension.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by normancw

I would take an FR-S for tracking over a Mustang GT. A friend of mine has a 2012 Mustang GT and is probably very similar to me in driving skill. Around Calabogie, he leaves me in the dust on the straights, but I can easily catch up to him in the turns, lapping about 2-3 seconds faster. He hits 210 kph on the fastest straight - I can only reach 170, but I brake about 1.5 cones later than him and carry much more speed in the turns.

Assuming he has similar tires, and the track pack, he really, really should be faster than you. It really shouldn't be much of a comparison. If this is the case, it's a difference in driver confidence, not in the car's ability. That having been said, having driven both of them, the FR-S is a much more confidence inspiring car than the GT, so it's (in my opinion) easier to push it closer to its limits. That having been said, the Mustang should be the faster car, given a skilled driver in each.

(I'd still take the FR-S/BRZ though, just for the feel/fun factor)

[autobrz]

For practical purposes, you can't compare cars with pro drivers in them because the average joe doesn't have pro driver skills to go fast in a car that is harder to drive at the limit on the track (mustang).

The only way to compare is for the average joe himself to drive both cars on the track and see which one he is more confident and comfortable with pushing to the limits and that determines how fast he is in each car.

For example, the MKII Toyota MR2 can be pretty fast on the track in stock form in the hands of a pro driver but in the hands on an average amateur, in stock form, it is probably a disaster considering how easily the car oversteers in stock form and how difficult it is to correct for it. It's very likely the amateur will spin the car at least once every 10 laps if he's trying to keep the pace of a much easier to drive car like the fr-s even though with a pro driver, the car's lap times may be very close.

At the end of the day, different average joes will be faster in different cars because of how their weaknesses and strengths play into the car's weaknesses and strengths.

[autobrz]

An illustration of what I'm talking about:
[ame]http://youtu.be/uf-6rLVeR2o[/ame]

2 drivers, one is faster in the frs the other is faster in the brz.

[thill]

Originally Posted by autobrz

For practical purposes, you can't compare cars with pro drivers in them because the average joe doesn't have pro driver skills to go fast in a car that is harder to drive at the limit on the track (mustang).

The only way to compare is for the average joe himself to drive both cars on the track and see which one he is more confident and comfortable with pushing to the limits and that determines how fast he is in each car.

For example, the MKII Toyota MR2 can be pretty fast on the track in stock form in the hands of a pro driver but in the hands on an average amateur, in stock form, it is probably a disaster considering how easily the car oversteers in stock form and how difficult it is to correct for it. It's very likely the amateur will spin the car at least once every 10 laps if he's trying to keep the pace of a much easier to drive car like the fr-s even though with a pro driver, the car's lap times may be very close.

At the end of the day, different average joes will be faster in different cars because of how their weaknesses and strengths play into the car's weaknesses and strengths.

I totally agree. I have driven Mustang GT's several times to near limit levels and they are not confidence inspiring. Especially on any type of uneven road with the live rear axle. Are they fast, heck yes they are. But the BRZ is just so much easier to push, and I am not talking about because it is less possible. Take a tight turn at 60mph in a BRZ and then take that same tight turn in the Mustang GT going 60mph. Chances are your foot is still on the gas pedal of the BRZ, whereas with the Ford, your foot is most likely on the brake....

[emirdtm]

Originally Posted by juliog

1) You're comparing out the door price for a (limited?) BRZ with MSRP with a good-luck-finding-one-on-the-dealers-lot base 228i.

2) 2800 to 3300 lbs (500lbs difference)

3) No LSD on the 2 series (not even standard on the $44K M235i)

GTFO...



( That said, if I wanted a BMW I'd buy a used E46 M3 )

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by normancw

I've never driven his car - I don't know if he has the track pack. He has the stock tires and I have Michelin Pilot Super Sports. Calabogie is pretty technical with a lot of tight turns.

Haha I'm trying to imagine muscling a Mustang GT on possibly stock all-seasons around that circuit! I've got a lot of respect for Mustang GTs, but they definitely feel bloated in the corners, even with the track-pack.

I can imagine an FR-S on MPSS tires would feel right at home on that course. My "home" track, Summit Point Shenandoah, is also very tight/technical and the FR-S feels so light as its carving up the corners

[normancw]

Originally Posted by thill

I totally agree. I have driven Mustang GT's several times to near limit levels and they are not confidence inspiring. Especially on any type of uneven road with the live rear axle.

I also agree. I've never driven a GT, but I test drove a 2013 Mustang V6 with performance package. On the same bumpy turn (road, not track), I easily take at 80kph in the FR-S, the Mustang's rear end was quite unsettled.

[Jaylyons1]

Originally Posted by normancw

I also agree. I've never driven a GT, but I test drove a 2013 Mustang V6 with performance package. On the same bumpy turn (road, not track), I easily take at 80kph in the FR-S, the Mustang's rear end was quite unsettled.

I'm hoping the new one will be different. My buddy told me the same thing with his GT. He has to take on ramps so slow because he just gets tossed around. Come on independent rear!

[botbs]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqimhN3B2uE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqimhN3B2uE[/ame]



Would you guys pick a stock BMW M2 (or M235i Racing) or a modified BRZ?

Say the money from the MSRP difference all goes to mods.

Which one would you pick?

[Levi]

Originally Posted by botbs

Would you guys pick a stock BMW M2 (or M235i Racing) or a modified BRZ?

Say the money from the MSRP difference all goes to mods.

Which one would you pick?

M2 does not exist yet. M235i Racing is not street legal, it is a racecar like the Toyota GT86 TMG. TMG race car costs 40K in Germany, M235i Racing will cost 60K. Toyota weighs less than 1200 kg and makes 200 PS/200Nm, BMW weighs more than 1450 kg and makes 330 PS/400Nm (if not more). In Europe there is little support for BRZ/GT86, hard to get parts. The BMW will have all parts available through BMW Motorsport. Toyota could be more pure and fun, but BMW will be faster and also fun.