Rear wheel drive - how big a difference?

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

100% of my post was sarcasm

It's cool man. I used a double carot ^^, which indicates I was replying to the post 2 above me, not yours.

[lickitysplit]

Originally Posted by fatoni

being experienced has nothing to do with a car being fast. also, that makes no sense at all. why are you losing control if you are understeering but maintain control when you are oversteering?

wut

[ZionsWrath]

Originally Posted by Diode Dynamics

You drifted a 93 Suburban?

Nick C.

Wow. If you skip to the last minute I LOLd hard at their luck in doing a documentary about rollovers and a Chevy Blazer rolled over right next to the guy they were interviewing. What are the fucking odds

[stugray]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Understeer is always safer. Understeer is always quicker.

ALL modern road cars understeer at the limit. Only excess engine torque can induce oversteer in a road car. There are those who claim some cars, particularly fwd hot hatches, will oversteer but this is technically inaccurate. Drop throttle induced oversteer is not a result of chassis behaviour or characteristics but of deliberate driver induced instability and is of very little use for quick road driving. Ditto inducing oversteer in our gloved BRZ. That's just poor driving to be honest.

Unless there's too much power for the drive wheels to put down onto the road fwd will always be quicker.

Only when the engine torque significantly overwhelms the drive wheel traction will rwd be quicker.

There is a myth that rwd is "better" but it just isn't.

The only real advantage rwd has in a low powered car is driving feel.

The oversteer you get in the BRZ actually slows the car down significantly. Better tires are the answer to get what little power there is down onto the road and driving the car forwards. Sideways may be exciting but it is very slow.

I want whatever you are smoking! You have almost everything you said backwards. You never want a racecar that understeers.

As for the RWD vs FWD in the snow.
My last supra (RWD no TC) was 100% useless in the snow.
If there was more than 1 inch of snow, I just stayed home from work.
My next car was a Solara (FWD w/ TC) and I could go ANYWHERE in the snow. I once witnessed a 4WD jeep spinning its wheels trying to climb up an icy hill.
I went right around him in the Solara w/ TC and up the hill with him watching me and cussing.

[ZionsWrath]

lol ♥ FWD accord with snow tires

With 4 people (added weight) they thought I was crazy the way I was driving in the 8 inches unplowed snow. good times haha

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by stugray

I want whatever you are smoking! You have almost everything you said backwards. You never want a racecar that understeers.

That's not true, it's driver preference. Ideally you'd want entirely neutral but that isn't always the case so racecars get setup to land either a bit loose or a bit tight depending on what the driver feels more comfortable manipulating (oops, oversteer or understeer). It's almost impossible to get the car bang on perfect, especially over an extended amount of laps. Drivers don't tend to reveal their preferences and I haven't been paying much attention to motorsport recently but I know Jenson Button prefers a bit of understeer:

http://safeisfast.com/qa_sessions/7#.UmlNMvmsh8E

I normally set the car up with a bit of understeer so that I can look after the rear tyres. But sometimes, if you set the car up with too much understeer you end up hurting the rears anyway because your positioning is wrong at the exit.

[BRZ21]

Originally Posted by PR FR-S

That should be a great High School Senior type of car...

it was my high school senior car haha

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by stugray

I want whatever you are smoking! You have almost everything you said backwards. You never want a racecar that understeers.

As for the RWD vs FWD in the snow.
My last supra (RWD no TC) was 100% useless in the snow.
If there was more than 1 inch of snow, I just stayed home from work.
My next car was a Solara (FWD w/ TC) and I could go ANYWHERE in the snow. I once witnessed a 4WD jeep spinning its wheels trying to climb up an icy hill.
I went right around him in the Solara w/ TC and up the hill with him watching me and cussing.

100% guarantee his tires were worn down all the way (or close to). Otherwise that physically makes no sense. Not to take away from your Solara's snow capabilities.

[ZionsWrath]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

100% guarantee his tires were worn down all the way (or close to). Otherwise that physically makes no sense. Not to take away from your Solara's snow capabilities.

Doubtful.

A computers ability to regulate power > your right foot.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

100% guarantee his tires were worn down all the way (or close to). Otherwise that physically makes no sense. Not to take away from your Solara's snow capabilities.

Well, of course. Good snow tires are far more important than which wheels are driven for a car's snow capability. Given equal tires, 4/AWD is best, followed by FWD, followed by RWD. Yes, a RWD car with good snow tires is very capable in the snow (plenty adequate for most people's needs), but FWD is still preferable. Clearance is also important if you ever need to drive on unplowed roads - as soon as you start dragging the bottom of the car in the snow, it's a lot harder to go anywhere.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

Doubtful.

A computers ability to regulate power > your right foot.

Computers and right foot are useless when comparing good tires to shit tires.

That's part of why bragging about losing a Ferrari or 911 in the twisties on the road or track is silly as well, the nut behind the wheel has way more to do with performance (and maintenance of the car) than the car itself.

Yeah half the time the Prius next to me gets off the light quicker, does that mean that he's a better driver or his car is faster? Probably not, but I wonder if sometimes they pop on the internet and say "lol I beat an FRS at the stoplight today, what a slow car!"

[ZionsWrath]

Originally Posted by chrisl

Well, of course. Good snow tires are far more important than which wheels are driven for a car's snow capability. Given equal tires, 4/AWD is best, followed by FWD, followed by RWD. Yes, a RWD car with good snow tires is very capable in the snow (plenty adequate for most people's needs), but FWD is still preferable. Clearance is also important if you ever need to drive on unplowed roads - as soon as you start dragging the bottom of the car in the snow, it's a lot harder to go anywhere.

Yes, weight over the drive wheels is very important. And given equal tires RWD generally have the least weight over the drive wheels resulting in the least snow traction.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by regal

The difference is when you push a FWD car too far you end up in a wreck, while RWD gives you a heads up.

Tell that to all the FWD drivers that have bought a FR-S/BRZ and then spun it tail first into a guardrail, telephone pole, tree, ditch, etc.

[ZionsWrath]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Computers and right foot are useless when comparing good tires to shit tires.

That's part of why bragging about losing a Ferrari or 911 in the twisties on the road or track is silly as well, the nut behind the wheel has way more to do with performance (and maintenance of the car) than the car itself.

Yeah half the time the Prius next to me gets off the light quicker, does that mean that he's a better driver or his car is faster? Probably not, but I wonder if sometimes they pop on the internet and say "lol I beat an FRS at the stoplight today, what a slow car!"

He never mentioned the tires on the car he was passing. I didn't know you were an expert on recognizing tires on moving vehicles in adverse conditions. My apologizes.