Options and what is worth it. - Page 2 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

Circuit Motorsports · 10-22-2013, 12:46 AM

You'd be hard pressed to squeeze 45 HP put of an N/A tune with that list, especially if you used an "Off-the-shelf map" and a drop in filter, etc.

I would suggest a really good EL header (not an UEL) and all the piping back, Intake instead of a drop-in and a solid custom tune using the best gas available in your area.

You could get a really nice jump in power from that, depending on your gas. From there if you wanted to keep it N/A you could go Flex-Fuel. Then see what comes out for cams, etc.

You could also go the FI route, a Supercharger kit would be able to utilize the header and exhaust, and depending on the software used to tune you could use the same tuner/software as well.

We had really good results with a local car using a S/C kit, and he was still on stock header.

If you want some help with a build feel free to hit us up

-Tristan

AspenItIs · 10-22-2013, 01:22 AM

Innovative just announced their water-air intercooler system to go along with the SC kit they produce. The results on the thread show an increase of 77hp over stock and at $4195 for the kit...so you would be looking at $54/HP!

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...65&postcount=1

StormTrooper · 10-22-2013, 01:32 AM

A good set of headers and a tune are around 30-35 whp gain not 20, but not 45 either....

I would also imagine the turbo kits don't do well with stock exhaust and would make more with custom tuning.

AspenItIs · 10-22-2013, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormTrooper

A good set of headers and a tune are around 30-35 whp gain not 20, but not 45 either....

I would also imagine the turbo kits don't do well with stock exhaust and would make more with custom tuning.

Just saw some numbers from the JDL UEL Header(w/ tune +E85), plots show a 30hp/20ft-tq increase and only set you back $949...insane! Albeit they already had a full exhaust on the car, still very nice.

Also, it would be silly for anyone to bolt on a turbo kit without doing some supporting mods (ie full turboback - Downpipe-> midpipe-> axleback). I think that goes with most bolt ons, as they would benefit from an exhaust upgrade .

boredom.is.me · 10-22-2013, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AspenItIs

Just saw some numbers from the JDL UEL Header(w/ tune +E85), plots show a 30hp/20ft-tq increase and only set you back $949...insane! Albeit they already had a full exhaust on the car, still very nice.

Also, it would be silly for anyone to bolt on a turbo kit without doing some supporting mods (ie full turboback - Downpipe-> midpipe-> axleback). I think that goes with most bolt ons, as they would benefit from an exhaust upgrade .

How would it be silly? When they post dyno plots of the various FI, it is typically with the stock exhaust components. Also you spend ~$5000 to get more power than you ever could with any amount of bolt-ons. Why should you be obligated to spend another $1000-$2000 on just an exhaust.

lickitysplit · 10-22-2013, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AspenItIs

Just saw some numbers from the JDL UEL Header(w/ tune +E85), plots show a 30hp/20ft-tq increase and only set you back $949...insane! Albeit they already had a full exhaust on the car, still very nice.

Also, it would be silly for anyone to bolt on a turbo kit without doing some supporting mods (ie full turboback - Downpipe-> midpipe-> axleback). I think that goes with most bolt ons, as they would benefit from an exhaust upgrade .

Honestly this is what you should expect from any decent header with this combo.

leon78 · 10-22-2013, 06:47 PM

Driver mod...priceless!

BlueDubbinTDI · 10-22-2013, 06:59 PM

thought innovate wasn't far off from the vortech...yet here says its no better than a NA setup...LOL!

StormTrooper · 10-22-2013, 07:02 PM

Header and tune and only 30whp...sounds like a bad tune....190+ has been had multiple times on 91/92 Oct.

I would expect 205+ with e85 and a good header...

Still nothing on a good FI setup but I want my car to run more than 5 years

forzajuve · 10-22-2013, 07:55 PM

It was just a rough number to put in there. I leaning more towards a supercharger than a turbo though. Aftermarket turbos seem to be too much trouble. The innovate s/c kit to me, seems like the best, modest forced induction kit.

boredom.is.me · 10-22-2013, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forzajuve

It was just a rough number to put in there. I leaning more towards a supercharger than a turbo though. Aftermarket turbos seem to be too much trouble. The innovate s/c kit to me, seems like the best, modest forced induction kit.

I like the Innovative over all the other FI options, but it seems over priced for what you get.

forzajuve · 10-22-2013, 11:08 PM

Really? For a mostly daily driver and maybe rare auto cross occasions, it seems well worth it.

Look at it this way, the Innovate w/ Intercooler is going for $4,195 on ft86speedfactory.

Pros (in my opinion)
- modest power upgrade compared to others
- you are likely to gain a minimum of +40 whp (but I think someone posted gains in the 60's, not sure their location) BUT that would put you at potentially 210, 220 and 230 whp. With the weight of this car, it will be pretty darn quick
- it will be cooled so heat wont be an issue (relative to how hot it gets naturally)
- it is twin screw so that also reduces relative heat also (relative to how hot it gets naturally)
- because of its modesty, I think it also serves as a safe addition to the engine, if you care about long term reliability/quick ware and tear (which is inevitable)

those are some off the top of my head. once i finally go for a forced induction install I think the Innovate s/c kit is my #1 choice vs. the other FI options, including turbos, unless something else comes along and seems worth it for the mid to long term.

jflogerzi · 10-22-2013, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forzajuve

Really? For a mostly daily driver and maybe rare auto cross occasions, it seems well worth it.

Look at it this way, the Innovate w/ Intercooler is going for $4,195 on ft86speedfactory.

Pros (in my opinion)
- modest power upgrade compared to others
- you are likely to gain a minimum of +40 whp (but I think someone posted gains in the 60's, not sure their location) BUT that would put you at potentially 210, 220 and 230 whp. With the weight of this car, it will be pretty darn quick
- it will be cooled so heat wont be an issue (relative to how hot it gets naturally)
- it is twin screw so that also reduces relative heat also (relative to how hot it gets naturally)
- because of its modesty, I think it also serves as a safe addition to the engine, if you care about long term reliability/quick ware and tear (which is inevitable)

those are some off the top of my head. once i finally go for a forced induction install I think the Innovate s/c kit is my #1 choice vs. the other FI options, including turbos, unless something else comes along and seems worth it for the mid to long term.

I am not sure its worth the inter cooler as it shows very small gains at lower boosts.

Fast_Freddy · 10-23-2013, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormTrooper

Header and tune and only 30whp...sounds like a bad tune....190+ has been had multiple times on 91/92 Oct.

I would expect 205+ with e85 and a good header...

Still nothing on a good FI setup but I want my car to run more than 5 years

Let me get this straight... A header + tune that gains 30 whp is a bad tune???

205+ whp should be expected from just a header and e85???

10-22-2013, 06:47 PM	#21
leon78 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Drives: 13 Whiteout Location: Niceville FL Posts: 666 Thanks: 307 Thanked 241 Times in 142 Posts Mentioned: 23 Post(s)	Driver mod...priceless! __________________ 2013 Scion FR-S (Whiteout) GunMetal 16x8+25 Enkei CompE_Cusco OCC_ Kartboy Crank Pulley_Kartboy TMM insert_Koni Yellows_RCE Springs_K&N Drop-In_Eibach FSB_J2 Catless FP_WhiteLine Camber Bolts_NameLess Track Pipe_RBF600_Ferodo DS2500_PTUNING Tuned. Less parking more racing

10-22-2013, 12:46 AM	#15
Circuit Motorsports Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Drives: 2013 Subaru BRZ Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 4,353 Thanks: 294 Thanked 495 Times in 259 Posts Mentioned: 35 Post(s)	You'd be hard pressed to squeeze 45 HP put of an N/A tune with that list, especially if you used an "Off-the-shelf map" and a drop in filter, etc. I would suggest a really good EL header (not an UEL) and all the piping back, Intake instead of a drop-in and a solid custom tune using the best gas available in your area. You could get a really nice jump in power from that, depending on your gas. From there if you wanted to keep it N/A you could go Flex-Fuel. Then see what comes out for cams, etc. You could also go the FI route, a Supercharger kit would be able to utilize the header and exhaust, and depending on the software used to tune you could use the same tuner/software as well. We had really good results with a local car using a S/C kit, and he was still on stock header. If you want some help with a build feel free to hit us up -Tristan

10-22-2013, 01:22 AM	#16
AspenItIs Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Drives: BRZ Location: SoCal Posts: 102 Thanks: 12 Thanked 17 Times in 13 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s)	Innovative just announced their water-air intercooler system to go along with the SC kit they produce. The results on the thread show an increase of 77hp over stock and at $4195 for the kit...so you would be looking at $54/HP! http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...65&postcount=1

10-22-2013, 06:59 PM	#22
BlueDubbinTDI Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: 2013 FR-S, 2012 MCS Location: Jax, FL Posts: 1,975 Thanks: 943 Thanked 570 Times in 356 Posts Mentioned: 4 Post(s)	thought innovate wasn't far off from the vortech...yet here says its no better than a NA setup...LOL!

10-22-2013, 07:55 PM	#24
forzajuve Banned Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: Ultramarine 86 - 6MT Location: California Posts: 533 Thanks: 184 Thanked 139 Times in 82 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s)	It was just a rough number to put in there. I leaning more towards a supercharger than a turbo though. Aftermarket turbos seem to be too much trouble. The innovate s/c kit to me, seems like the best, modest forced induction kit.

10-22-2013, 11:08 PM	#26
forzajuve Banned Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: Ultramarine 86 - 6MT Location: California Posts: 533 Thanks: 184 Thanked 139 Times in 82 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s)	Really? For a mostly daily driver and maybe rare auto cross occasions, it seems well worth it. Look at it this way, the Innovate w/ Intercooler is going for $4,195 on ft86speedfactory. Pros (in my opinion) - modest power upgrade compared to others - you are likely to gain a minimum of +40 whp (but I think someone posted gains in the 60's, not sure their location) BUT that would put you at potentially 210, 220 and 230 whp. With the weight of this car, it will be pretty darn quick - it will be cooled so heat wont be an issue (relative to how hot it gets naturally) - it is twin screw so that also reduces relative heat also (relative to how hot it gets naturally) - because of its modesty, I think it also serves as a safe addition to the engine, if you care about long term reliability/quick ware and tear (which is inevitable) those are some off the top of my head. once i finally go for a forced induction install I think the Innovate s/c kit is my #1 choice vs. the other FI options, including turbos, unless something else comes along and seems worth it for the mid to long term.

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