Has the FT86 changed the sports car industry?

[husker741]

Originally Posted by fatoni

im sure i have but i think its possible to think a car is flawed but still put it on a pedestal.

No pedestal here. Just asking a simple question of the opinions on the board. Some agree. Some disagree. To call others 16 year olds because of a question that has provoked good discussion is stupid.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by jblmr2

Mazda has traditional offered a coupe, RX 7/8. Scuttlebutt has it that the RX-9 will debut in 2017. If that is indeed in the hopper, it wouldn't appear that another performance oriented coupe based on the Miata would be likely.

The RX-8 had too many issues with reliability, poor fuel economy, and oil consumption for people to realistically consider it IMO.

Originally Posted by fatoni

posts like this just make me imagine that this forum is full of a bunch of sixteen year olds. the miata has always been around and pretty much any thing the frs has already done and has been doing it pretty consistently for the last 20 something years. was the rx8 or s2000 really that long ago?

The difference being the Twins have rear seats and a fixed roof of course.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by husker741

No pedestal here. Just asking a simple question of the opinions on the board. Some agree. Some disagree. To call others 16 year olds because of a question that has provoked good discussion is stupid.

well i apologize if you took it that way. i wasnt trying to belittle anyone or refer to them as a child. i think the topic is valid but i just think that a lot of the praise for the twins could be applied to many cars in recent history.

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

The RX-8 had too many issues with reliability, poor fuel economy, and oil consumption for people to realistically consider it IMO.



The difference being the Twins have rear seats and a fixed roof of course.

thats true but are back seats and a fixed roof really going to change the sports car industry?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by fatoni

thats true but are back seats and a fixed roof really going to change the sports car industry?

Honestly, it's the difference between me buying a Miata or S2000 vs. not. So yes for me, but I don't know how many others were in my position.

[husker741]

I know plenty if people who didn't want to get a Miata or S2k because they were verts. Another thing this car has going for it. I know you can get hard tops for each, but it's still not fixed.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Honestly, it's the difference between me buying a Miata or S2000 vs. not. So yes for me, but I don't know how many others were in my position.

im sure there are a lot of people who were swayed by the practicality. i just think the frs is simply somewhere in the middle of the practical vs sporty spectrum. i bet there are just as many people swayed out of an frs and into an evo or sti as there are people being swayed out of a miata into an frs.

it just get the feeling that the sport car segment is getting artificially compartmentalized. kinda like computers. there used to be laptops and desktops. not there are tablets and phones and a dozen little subgenres in between.

[thill]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Honestly, it's the difference between me buying a Miata or S2000 vs. not. So yes for me, but I don't know how many others were in my position.

Spot on. I needed:
- A reliable daily driver that was a blast to drive and got good gas mileage.
- I 100% do not want to buy a convertible where I can really only enjoy that feature maybe 4 months out of the year.
- I 100% needed a backseat since I have kids. And I wanted a car that had some kind of a trunk.

I think fatoni is spot on by mentioning the MX-5 in the same breath as this car in terms of "revolutionary". But let's be honest, as a non-convertible inexpensive (well under $30K), driver forcused, light, RWD sports cars were not available. Heavy GT style RWD coupes were that makes loads of horsepower and torque but also weigh a lot and focus less on driving characteristics and more on brute force power. As someone who has owned these types of cars the FT86 was a breadth of fresh air. Something I had been waiting on since I sold my 95 RX-7. The RX-8 just about got me to open up my wallet, and I even put down a deposit on one. But there was just something about the car I did not love and bought something else.

So yeah, is this car revolutionary? Probably not, but it certainly bucked the trend of lighter RWD sports coupes that offer a roof and a somewhat useable backseat.

I really hope we see more cars like this. A Nissan 240ish car, a Mazda RX-7, etc.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by fatoni

im sure there are a lot of people who were swayed by the practicality. i just think the frs is simply somewhere in the middle of the practical vs sporty spectrum. i bet there are just as many people swayed out of an frs and into an evo or sti as there are people being swayed out of a miata into an frs.

it just get the feeling that the sport car segment is getting artificially compartmentalized. kinda like computers. there used to be laptops and desktops. not there are tablets and phones and a dozen little subgenres in between.

Yeah it takes a bit of narrow perspective to say the Twins changed the sports car industry, but certainly for people looking for a really good, cheap RWD "driver's car" w/fixed roof, these cars filled a gaping hole in the market.

There weren't any real substitutes at the time the Twins were released. The general consensus is that manufacturers didn't think a low hp, lightweight RWD coupe could be successful. Those kind of cars hadn't been successful in recent history and were being killed off (RX-8, Solstice/Sky coupe, 240sx). Heavier cars like the Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, GenCoupe, and 370z seemed to be the new trend.

Toyota/Subaru proved the segment was still viable and piqued the interest of competing manfucturers. Now we see a number of manufacturers announcing weight reductions for future models, esp RWD coupes like the 370z and Mustang. Whether the Twins had anything to do with that, who knows.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Yeah it takes a bit of narrow perspective to say the Twins changed the sports car industry, but certainly for people looking for a really good, cheap RWD "driver's car" w/fixed roof, these cars filled a gaping hole in the market.

There weren't any real substitutes at the time the Twins were released. The general consensus is that manufacturers didn't think a low hp, lightweight RWD coupe could be successful. Those kind of cars hadn't been successful in recent history and were being killed off (RX-8, Solstice/Sky coupe, 240sx). Heavier cars like the Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, GenCoupe, and 370z seemed to be the new trend.

Toyota/Subaru proved the segment was still viable and piqued the interest of competing manfucturers. Now we see a number of manufacturers announcing weight reductions for future models, esp RWD coupes like the 370z and Mustang. Whether the Twins had anything to do with that, who knows.

Agreed that there is no alternative, I'd probably be in an RX8 if the 86 didn't exist, or I would have bitten the bullet and gotten a convertible.

Disagree though, the Mustang and Miata were going to go lighter before the 86 was announced, I didn't want to go digging but check out this article from 2010:

http://www.themustangnews.com/conten.../#.UmVz3Pmsh8E

The 86 as we know it was introduced in 2011 with only concepts prior, hard to say that this is a 'reaction' to the 86.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Agreed that there is no alternative, I'd probably be in an RX8 if the 86 didn't exist, or I would have bitten the bullet and gotten a convertible.

Disagree though, the Mustang and Miata were going to go lighter before the 86 was announced, I didn't want to go digging but check out this article from 2010:

http://www.themustangnews.com/conten.../#.UmVz3Pmsh8E

The 86 as we know it was introduced in 2011 with only concepts prior, hard to say that this is a 'reaction' to the 86.

Nice article. So I think it's safe to say the Mustang was going lighter before the 86 concept was even announced.

[thill]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Nice article. So I think it's safe to say the Mustang was going lighter before the 86 concept was even announced.

I would imagine even Subaru and Toyota will try and find ways to shave weight off future versions of the FT86. CAFE standards will demand it unless they go hybrid which would most likely add to the weight.

[Anaxilus]

My problem w/ the Miata being a sort of current standard bearer for lightweight RWD is that is has also grown fat and heavy over the years just the same as all the others out there. Even Mazda knows it was going in the wrong direction since it's been working on a 2,200lb Miata. Which may or may not pick up another 300-400lbs once it actually comes to the US like the 4C did.

Toyota didn't reinvent anything w/ the 86. I did however get everyone to take a timeout and adjust.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

My problem w/ the Miata being a sort of current standard bearer for lightweight RWD is that is has also grown fat and heavy over the years just the same as all the others out there. Even Mazda knows it was going in the wrong direction since it's been working on a 2,200lb Miata. Which may or may not pick up another 300-400lbs once it actually comes to the US like the 4C did.

Toyota didn't reinvent anything w/ the 86. I did however get everyone to take a timeout and adjust.

Current Miata is still under 2,600 lbs, at it's lightest it was just under 2,200 lbs.
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=289738
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_M...ation_.28NC.29

400 pound gain over 20+ years is a pretty damn good job of keeping it light, the only cars lighter are the Fiat 500 and Ford Fiesta/Mazda 2 off the top of my head (mass produced, actual cars not golf carts).

Drive an NC miata and tell me with a straight face it's bloated compared to an 86.

Here's an article from 2009 with a Mazda guy saying the next Miata will be lighter and smaller.

http://www.edmunds.com/mazda/mx-5-mi...oad-test1.html

Again, nobody is reacting to the 86, these companies would be making the exact same moves if the 86 didn't exist.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

My problem w/ the Miata being a sort of current standard bearer for lightweight RWD is that is has also grown fat and heavy over the years just the same as all the others out there. Even Mazda knows it was going in the wrong direction since it's been working on a 2,200lb Miata. Which may or may not pick up another 300-400lbs once it actually comes to the US like the 4C did.

Toyota didn't reinvent anything w/ the 86. I did however get everyone to take a timeout and adjust.

the miata has gone from 2116 to 2447 in 23 years and your calling that growing fat? you cant honestly be criticizing 2447lbs on a forum for a car weighing in at 2758. i think the miata is currently the lightest production sports car and i would love for you to mention a single sports car that is either lighter or has gained less weight in that amount of time.