Need brake pad advice

[CSG Mike]

If you swap pads, I'd recommend changing the night before, and doing a little braking on the way to the track. If you swap at the track, your first session might be... questionable.

And, pads are like women; everyone has their own preferences. The only reason we recommend Carbotechs are that they're a much easier pad to transition to for the guys who haven't driven on race pads, and are more forgiving to overheating.

Otherwise, I'd just tell everyone to use Project Mu 999 (my pad of choice).

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

RS3's heat cycle out, as do all tires, 4 seconds is possible with really old RS3s.

Vortechs are known to cook the oil, so keep an eye on those temps. Temps drop super fast when you lift, so you need to be logging.

Bed till they fade, not till they smoke. They're not one and the same... Screeching is a sign that you may have glazed them, where as a piercing scream is an unbedded pad

I have the twin screw with robispec cooling system. Logs look good as far as temps so far.

So looks like I didn't bed them in correctly then. They make a rediculously high pitched piercing scream/whine. Like glass shattering with the windows down. Can they still be bed in if I try to do it correctly?

Here is the XP10 pad so far. Does it have life for one more track day?

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

If you swap pads, I'd recommend changing the night before, and doing a little braking on the way to the track. If you swap at the track, your first session might be... questionable.

For sure and also swapping pads at home in your own garage can be more comfortable. Elaborate on "questionable" if you could, just for clarity.

The race pad is going to remove and reset the transfer layer in only a handful of braking zones. Shouldn't take more than 2 laps. But I agree, I like the idea of swapping pads in the comfort of my own garage.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

And, pads are like women; everyone has their own preferences. The only reason we recommend Carbotechs are that they're a much easier pad to transition to for the guys who haven't driven on race pads, and are more forgiving to overheating.

Oh I know what my preferences are but I still get curious... Yooouuuuuu know what I'm sayin'

And recommending a pad (carbotech) that requires all the planets to be aligned as well as a sacrifice upon the blue moon just to put down an even transfer layer seems strange to me. Maybe I've been around the track too long but any pad that is hyper-sensitive to burnishing is a waste of time and money for what we do IMHO(not being an ALMS team and all). If I'm swapping pads for the weekend, it's not a challenge I want to face every time I go to the track. I know you sell Carbotechs but they're terrible pads for beginners (and for non beginners too) because of how difficult they are. It just makes sense to suggest something that just works instead.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by forgiving to overheating? Wouldn't a pad that you cannot overheat be forgiving to overheating?

The ST43/45 could probably be used to halt a nuclear meltdown. Or are you suggesting that it's better to have a pad that will fade before all your fluid boils and your rotors turn to magma? Which is probably not a bad recommendation.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Otherwise, I'd just tell everyone to use Project Mu 999 (my pad of choice).

If they're less sensitive to burnishing than the Carbotechs, I would absolutely do this. Also, I want to try a set now.

It doesn't look like they come in the CRX backing plate (D373) but I can make S2000 pads fit in in the D373 caliper pretty easy (this is how I used to buy my XR1's). But the PU999 for the S2k is like $291!! HOLY Smokes! I tell you what, I'll buy you a set of ST43's and you buy me a set of 999's and we'll trade.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Here is the XP10 pad so far. Does it have life for one more track day?

If you can get it to burnish/bed then I'd say yes. It looks fine.

Here's a good indication it's time to replace them:



I like pads that aren't riveted because you run them down a bit further.

[Sonolin]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

If you swap pads, I'd recommend changing the night before, and doing a little braking on the way to the track. If you swap at the track, your first session might be... questionable.

And, pads are like women; everyone has their own preferences. The only reason we recommend Carbotechs are that they're a much easier pad to transition to for the guys who haven't driven on race pads, and are more forgiving to overheating.

Otherwise, I'd just tell everyone to use Project Mu 999 (my pad of choice).

Mike, I'm thinking about ordering some Carbotech XP-8 or XP-10 this week, what's the recommended process to break them in?

I've seen your other write ups but I'm a little confused. This will be my first track day. Should I just swap them night before, and try to heat them up on the street first? Then bed them at the track? For both of these instances, should I just stop from 80 to 30 over and over like you recommended?

Is there another pad you would recommend that has similar stopping power but is easier to bed? I just want something to take to the track & not have too much squeels during DD.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

For sure and also swapping pads at home in your own garage can be more comfortable. Elaborate on "questionable" if you could, just for clarity.

Braking may or may not be questionable, depending on the compounds that are being mixed. They usually return to normal after the 1st session. Mixed compounds sometimes interact badly, and massively overheat, or just don't bite, etc.

Originally Posted by rice_classic

And recommending a pad (carbotech) that requires all the planets to be aligned as well as a sacrifice upon the blue moon just to put down an even transfer layer seems strange to me. Maybe I've been around the track too long but any pad that is hyper-sensitive to burnishing is a waste of time and money for what we do IMHO(not being an ALMS team and all). If I'm swapping pads for the weekend, it's not a challenge I want to face every time I go to the track. I know you sell Carbotechs but they're terrible pads for beginners (and for non beginners too) because of how difficult they are. It just makes sense to suggest something that just works instead.

I've never had a problem bedding them... or bedding them for local clients. :shrug:

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Can you elaborate on what you mean by forgiving to overheating? Wouldn't a pad that you cannot overheat be forgiving to overheating?

Carbotechs lose bite very gradually as they go past MOT, as opposed to a lot of primarily metallic pads that lose bite very quickly, which can be dangerous for novices without the knowledge/ability to recognise a fading pad.

Originally Posted by rice_classic

The ST43/45 could probably be used to halt a nuclear meltdown. Or are you suggesting that it's better to have a pad that will fade before all your fluid boils and your rotors turn to magma? Which is probably not a bad recommendation.

I am

The XP10 and RBF600 are actually pretty well matched, with the RBF600 giving out slightly earlier.

Originally Posted by rice_classic

If they're less sensitive to burnishing than the Carbotechs, I would absolutely do this. Also, I want to try a set now.

It doesn't look like they come in the CRX backing plate (D373) but I can make S2000 pads fit in in the D373 caliper pretty easy (this is how I used to buy my XR1's). But the PU999 for the S2k is like $291!! HOLY Smokes! I tell you what, I'll buy you a set of ST43's and you buy me a set of 999's and we'll trade.

If you want to try 999's, we can arrange something, but we're out of stock (sold out QUICK) for now, but have another order being put together. Once the order is placed, it's about a 3-4 month lead time.

No we won't release pads out of the stash we side aside for our personal use

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Sonolin

Mike, I'm thinking about ordering some Carbotech XP-8 or XP-10 this week, what's the recommended process to break them in?

I've seen your other write ups but I'm a little confused. This will be my first track day. Should I just swap them night before, and try to heat them up on the street first? Then bed them at the track? For both of these instances, should I just stop from 80 to 30 over and over like you recommended?

Is there another pad you would recommend that has similar stopping power but is easier to bed? I just want something to take to the track & not have too much squeels during DD.

PM me your e-mail, and I'll forward you our recommended bedding procedure. Essentially, you can sum it up as "barely fade the pads, without using ABS, and then cool down completely without stopping". Our bedding instructions are just a guide for those that haven't gone through so many sets of pads that they know what they need to do.

If you're in town this weekend, I can meet you at WSIR and help you bed your brakes. (Saturday)

I actually recommend the Carbotechs because they have *less* bite; they're easier to transition to.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

I have the twin screw with robispec cooling system. Logs look good as far as temps so far.

So looks like I didn't bed them in correctly then. They make a rediculously high pitched piercing scream/whine. Like glass shattering with the windows down. Can they still be bed in if I try to do it correctly?

Here is the XP10 pad so far. Does it have life for one more track day?

Looks like you never really got a lot of heat in your pad. Lets step down to XP8 for your next set until you start running into fade issues.

Those pads are a hair under half used. You have plenty of life left! I'd eyeball them to have about 5.5-6mm of pad material left. New pads have about 9.5mm material, and you should keep a spare set if you get under 3mm for a track day. A lot of guys will recommend swapping earlier, but I personally run my pad to the backing; I can feel when there is metal on metal, and will stop driving before I cause any damage.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

If you can get it to burnish/bed then I'd say yes. It looks fine.

Here's a good indication it's time to replace them:



I like pads that aren't riveted because you run them down a bit further.

This is what our last set of Carbotech XP12 looked like before we replaced them on the CSG BRZ.

[rice_classic]

[CSG Mike]

No rivets :p

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Looks like you never really got a lot of heat in your pad. Lets step down to XP8 for your next set until you start running into fade issues.

I guess I am not driving flat out.

[mistressmotorsports]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

This is what our last set of Carbotech XP12 looked like before we replaced them on the CSG BRZ.

Well that's just bragging, isn't it?