rev matching

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by Marcoscrdo

can someone record a video on the foot work?

There are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of videos on YouTube of it. The exact car doesn't change the motion too much, unless the car has such a cramped space, which I didn't feel was the case with the 86.

[Myv]

Originally Posted by Eurasianman

My car seems to really hate me when I downshift from 6th gear to 3rd gear (skipping 5th and 4th)

As in, it is either hard to get into that gear or it starts to grind a little (as soon as I hear it slightly grind, I put the gear in neutral and shift into the gear that precedes the previous gear i.e. 6th->5th).

Never had this problem with the last 3 vehicles I drove, all of which were manuals (2010 Cobalt SS turbocharged, 2007 Pontiac G5, 1997 Toyota Tacoma).

Just wanted to chime in on that real quick. Now back to your regular program.

How high of RPM do you blip to? Probably need to blip up to 5000+ RPM for that to slide in easily.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

Last time I checked, heel-toeing does actually help with smooth (down)shifting.

Only if you're braking and shifting at the same time, which last I checked wasn't necessary for getting milk at the grocery store. Everybody drives in different ways, my point is that the OP shouldn't overcomplicate things with trying to be a cool kid on the internet.

Originally Posted by serialk11r

What the heck? Double clutching isn't necessary? Sure, you can shift without double clutching, but synchros wear out. Double clutching saves synchros. Do it. One extra pedal press, and the shifter will slide into gear like butter and do so indefinitely.

When your synchros get worn down downshifting without double clutching becomes extremely hard to impossible (I would know, my car's synchros are shot).

Synchros exist solely so you don't have to double clutch, your ten year old car has a worn out transmission and that's you're logic for people should always double clutch? How many miles? You know they have a expected lifespan regardless of double clutching, if you're planning on sailing past 150k miles in a car you should probably expect to replace things instead of limping along telling yourself it's normal. I find it funny that you imply that the 86's transmission only slides in like butter everytime if you double clutch, how much have you driven one?

@mitosis My comment wasn't directed at you specifically, for instance the first response in the thread was "heel toe" which is entirely unnecessary for smooth driving on the street.

It boils down to being at the right engine rpm for the gear and speed your wheels are spinning at, no novel (despite how much you guys type (again not directed at you mitosis)) will replace seat time.

Edit: relevant thread:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38439

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Only if you're braking and shifting at the same time, which last I checked wasn't necessary for getting milk at the grocery store. Everybody drives in different ways, my point is that the OP shouldn't overcomplicate things with trying to be a cool kid on the internet.

No one's trying to be a cool kid. It's not "necessary" when running errands, but it's not unnecessary either. Braking and shifting at the same time isn't exactly a rare occurrence, even on the daily grind. I find myself doing it quite frequently when daily driving... i.e. turning around a regular corner (unless you're fine with going around a turn at 15 mph, lugging along at the bottom of fourth gear), slowing down in traffic but making a lane change into a less congested lane and speeding up (when safe and appropriate).

Again, we all have different driving styles, which I get and can live with. But heel-toeing on a regular basis in daily driving when appropriate isn't really outlandish as some people make it out to be.

[Jive Turkey]

i literally cannot drive with out heal-toe. it just makes it smoother on the car. i'm also always coasting to lights. so if it turns red way up a head i'm just downshifting and coasting. saves gas, and half the time i dont have to come to a full stop which is nice. however the people behind me probably hate me but IDGAF.

also any time i see a prius i'll just drop a gear JK.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

On the flipside, the people behind you won't have to worry about you randomly slamming on your brakes, contrasting to the types of drivers who don't slow down and stay on the gas.

[LeeMaster]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

i literally cannot drive with out heal-toe. it just makes it smoother on the car. i'm also always coasting to lights. so if it turns red way up a head i'm just downshifting and coasting. saves gas, and half the time i dont have to come to a full stop which is nice. however the people behind me probably hate me but IDGAF.

also any time i see a prius i'll just drop a gear JK.

I think you save more gas by just shifting into neutral than to heel-toe, and then when the light turns green you can then get in the appropriate gear for the speed and rev match and just go.

I also love it when someone who hates me just drives pass by like a maniac and gets ahead of me a mile away and then I meet up with them side by side again at a stoplight, sometimes getting ahead of them if there's traffic and then they have to pass me again. Kinda reminds me of that Initial D episode when that 86 went up against that white EVO. haha

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by LeeMaster

I think you save more gas by just shifting into neutral than to heel-toe, and then when the light turns green you can then get in the appropriate gear for the speed and rev match and just go.

No it doesn't. When you're off the throttle the fuel injectors shut off using no gas (or very little) whereas when you're in neutral fuel is consumed to keep the engine spinning and all the accessories powered (alternator, vacuum systems, brake booster etc.).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy-...ing_or_gliding

But it's your choice, it's really a personal decision. BTW you can see when the 86 cuts off the fuel injectors because the instant MPG gauge will read "127 mpg".

[Ralph Spoilsport]

Watch and learn.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96ekbvjyr0g"]Ayrton Senna's - Heel-and-toe - YouTube[/ame]

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

No it doesn't. When you're off the throttle the fuel injectors shut off using no gas (or very little) whereas when you're in neutral fuel is consumed to keep the engine spinning and all the accessories powered (alternator, vacuum systems, brake booster etc.).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy-...ing_or_gliding

But it's your choice, it's really a personal decision. BTW you can see when the 86 cuts off the fuel injectors because the instant MPG gauge will read "127 mpg".

Yup, I was just about to say something similar. Being in neutral might have the rpms at idle, but it's still burning gas in order to maintain rpms and not stall. If you're off the throttle (provided that you're below a certain rpm -- within closed loop mode, if I'm using the proper terms), then no fuel (or little fuel) is being injected since you don't need to maintain a certain rpm level, as the rpms slowly decrease without stalling (unless the rpms gets super, super low).

That's why when you're in-gear but you let off of the gas, the mpg meter usually goes to the max, whether it's a stick or auto.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Synchros exist solely so you don't have to double clutch, your ten year old car has a worn out transmission and that's you're logic for people should always double clutch? How many miles? You know they have a expected lifespan regardless of double clutching, if you're planning on sailing past 150k miles in a car you should probably expect to replace things instead of limping along telling yourself it's normal. I find it funny that you imply that the 86's transmission only slides in like butter everytime if you double clutch, how much have you driven one?

I'm not saying the transmission doesn't shift smoothly without double clutching, but I am saying that synchros are a wear item and you will prolong their life by double clutching. Same reason you try to keep the rpms down when you start the car, reduces wear on the clutch, except synchros are harder to replace.

The synchros are still doing work if you double clutch, they will perform the final speed matching and allow a faster shift, and they'll stay happy longer. Obviously it's not necessary, the transmission still works fine, but you can't argue double clutching is not better.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by stugray

So on one hand, you say you need to double clutch (which based on that statement, we assume you do)
Yet you state that your synchros are already worn out.....hmmm...
Synchros were invented and used in almost all MTs today just so double clutching and rev matching are not required.
Synchros can get worn if the wrong MT fluid is used.... They need some friction to work correctly.

I bought the car a year ago, the previous owner wore them out. Nice try. :P

Synchros will wear regardless of fluid, all I'm arguing is double clutching is good for the transmission and fun.

[stugray]

It's all good. It comes down to drivers style.

However, I am around true road racing 6 months of the year, and not once in 5 years of race driving experience has anyone ever mentioned double clutching unless the tranny/overdrive is having a problem.

And that is in cars from 60s-90s and $3k to $250k including sequential gearboxes.

[Eurasianman]

Originally Posted by Myv

How high of RPM do you blip to? Probably need to blip up to 5000+ RPM for that to slide in easily.

Hmm... I could have sworn I tried that before. In fact, one time, I somehow shifted into 3rd going too fast (Coming out of 4th and was trying to shift into 5th... don't ask). Got zero grind.... but the rear wheels locked up and left a nice cloud of tire smoke/marks

Edit: Just realized that I was not trying to skip gears that time.