love tracking this car; brake calipers and wheel studs issues

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by infinite012

Lubricating wheel studs? Sounds like you're going to end up with your wheels falling off. Lubrication of a fastener will change the fastener preload and torque required.

Obviously that is an exaggeration and your wheels will likely not fall off, but please don't just say "slap on some antiseize and go about your business."

We use anti-sieze on our lugnuts. We also include a few packets with every set of CSG lug nuts we sell. We specifically chose a lubricant that is compatible with our Chromoly and Aluminum lugnuts, and will resist temperatures up to 2000F.

The purpose for this is to reduce/eliminate galvanic corrosion from mixed metal contact. It also makes the lugnut go on easier

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Just slap a little anti-seize on your lugs an go. You'll be just fine.

Edit: I have to elaborate some so people don't think it's a bad idea.

Porsche recommends it in their factory manuals:
"Thinly grease thread, shank and under head (between screw head bearing surface and spherical cap ring) of the wheel bolts with Optimoly TA (aluminum paste). Do not grease bearing surface of the spherical cap facing the wheel. If heavily contaminated, clean bolts first with a lint-free cloth."

Personal Experience:
At the race track when wheel lugs are torqued to spec on dry studs what often happens is they bond themselves to the studs after the heat/abuse of the race track and when try to remove them it is very very difficult. So much so that I've broken a stud right off while trying to loosen a lug. This is where I learned of the necessity to use a little anti-seize on the stud threads. If you're changing/removing wheels in between sessions at the track (aka: when hot), it's something you're going to want to do. I've been racing with anti-seize on my studs for almost a decade now and since then I haven't broken a stud since.

Anti-seize is not oil, it's not moly.. it's just a soft metal (nickel/copper) with a mild lube as a carrier. It's does very little to affect the torque value especially when it's not being applied to contact faces of the things being torqued together.

Just some more fun reading:
http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/7...-the-question!
"As a technician for over 20 years I have done many different things, mostly based on employer based requirements.
Now a few years ago I was working at a Firestone Mastercare. Well we got Modern Tire Dealer magazine and in that publication for the record one of the tire/wheel/whatever groups did proper investigation and found that "silver" nickle based anti-seize is fine and even recommended as it does not change torque values by any more than 5% but actually normalize the fastener torquing.
And if you ever look at any properly maintained semi or trailer you will see anti-seize on the wheel studs.
So silver nickle based anti-seize is ok and even recommended this will keep things from rusting, prevent things from binding or galling."

The other thing to consider is that a closed wheel stud is such that it keeps the elements away from the stud and it's threads. When running open lugs, the studs are exposed to the elements and corrosion will eventually occur so for a daily driven application where open lugs are part of the equation it can keep the corrosion down as well as keep the lug from corroding to the stud.

This is an excellent post.

The Metal "fusion" is galvanic corrosion I previously mentioned.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by kvnchu

i've snapped a ton of lugs on this car..

I'm gonna buy you a harbor freight torque wrench...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by 448hpsti

Failing at brakes so far and have yet to go pay Essex my wad.
My brakes aren't ducted, and they suck. So maybe you're onto something there! I just am not sure adding ducting will give me the thermal capacity I need, in the same physical volume of pad and rotor. I have only tried a ds2500 in stock size, are any of you convinced these setup plus track specific pads offer enough stop to not want a unrated brake kit for an Fi car?

I am on r comps with oe studs and steel lugs, no issue, do you guys think I should be worried about catastrophic failure of all five studs since I drive like an idiot on oe studs?

And yes, factory brake fluid in these cars is horse piss

The studs are fine.

I'd recommend you try some race pads before committing to a BBK. If the race pads are still lacking, THEN it's time to get a BBK.

Or, alternatively, if you know you're going to stick to tracking, get the BBK up front, because it'll reduce your operating cost substantially.

Ducting will help cool your brakes faster, making the sustained temperatures climb, faster, and potentially lower the equilibrium temperature your brakes reach, but if that equilibrium is still too high for the setup, then yes, ducting alone won't be enough.

[trackjunkie]

rice_classic: Great pictures on covering the boots with tape. Will definitely do that.

smb_style: Can you post a link to where to get the Ti shims. I definitely want them based on your experience.

Glad to see I am not the only track junkie out there

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by 448hpsti

The anti seize I use goes on the back of the wheel, against the rotor. I dunno, lube on lug and my driving style would sit in the back of my head all wrong I think, unless you tell me the carrier for the copper in the anti seize is not a petroleum base

hold on a second

you anti-sieze the mating surface between the WHEEL and the ROTOR and you're wondering why you're snapping the studs?

anti-sieze goes on the THREADS, no where else

any two surfaces that mate flat together for the purposes of sticking together should be free of any contaminants, most of all anything that prevents friction.

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by trackjunkie

rice_classic: Great pictures on covering the boots with tape. Will definitely do that.

smb_style: Can you post a link to where to get the Ti shims. I definitely want them based on your experience.

Glad to see I am not the only track junkie out there

Here are the ti-shims:

http://hardbrakes.com/?gclid=CJaVm6L467kCFYSd4AodDkUAfw

[7thgear]

i like diagrams...

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

I was considering the DBA rotors, but honestly, after 5 very hard days at Sebring and Barber, the OEM rotors are still holding up fine. Normal heat checking, but nothing that is of concern. I have a set of blanks ready to go, but am going to run these OEM rotors to see how far I can go with them.

I've been running the TF Brake Cooling kit and ti-shims since I started tracking, and I think they help contribute to extending the pad and rotor life. I know two guys whos OEM rotors were trashed after a day or two at Sebring.

Sounds like you found the best setup for OEM brakes without costing an arm and leg.

I personally don't like the idea of the ducts it's harder to control the cooling. It's either full open or blocked off. In your case if you are always on a heavy braking track it becomes the magic bullet.

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Sounds like you found the best setup for OEM brakes without costing an arm and leg.

I personally don't like the idea of the ducts it's harder to control the cooling. It's either full open or blocked off. In your case if you are always on a heavy braking track it becomes the magic bullet.

yeah good point, on a light braking track I'd be worried about overcooling and not having any bite when going into the next braking zone.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

yeah good point, on a light braking track I'd be worried about overcooling and not having any bite when going into the next braking zone.

Barring the sci-fi reality of Mr. Freeze's freeze ray... There's no such thing as too much cooling for your braking system. (In the context of a car on a racetrack)

Always leave those ducts open, they're not just helping your heat-sinks scrub heat they are helping key parts in your rotating assembly stay cool like your wheel bearings. It isn't a need to "control cooling" as Dezoris says, it is a need to improve the functionality of the heat-sinks (that is, everything that absorbs the heat generated by the brakes). Heat causes bearings to wear out, fluid to degrade, grease to fail etc etc. It goes back to why we're putting heat reflective tape on our ball joint boots. You want to keep heat out of things that don't want heat in them or around them and brake ducting goes a LONG way to aid in this.

If you have a pad that can't function with your brake ducting, the answer isn't to reduce the ducting. The answer to buy the correct pad.

[bolecailey]

I was under the impression that with race pads and race fluid (RBF 650, SRF, etc.) that the factory brakes were more than adequate for track days even with faster drivers. Is that not the case?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by bolecailey

I was under the impression that with race pads and race fluid (RBF 650, SRF, etc.) that the factory brakes were more than adequate for track days even with faster drivers. Is that not the case?

Adequate? yes. Cost effective? Not at all.

[FRSfan111]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Adequate? yes. Cost effective? Not at all.

So would you recommend BBKs up front? If so what brand? Also if BBK is the way to go should I invest in brake cooling ducts too? I was pondering BBKs up front, brake cooling ducts and possibly just pads/rotors for the rear. Would this be a decent set up? I DD and do hpde/advanced driver classes 1-2 times a month.