Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[Gary in NJ]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

what your general impression?

It's a great addition to an already fun platform. The only complaint I've had about my BRZ has been power delivery (or lack thereof) below 5000 rpm. The ESC completely remedies this lack of performance. Every review you read about the -86 makes this same comment - so it's no surprise. What would be surprising to any of those magazine reviewers is how this simple device transforms the power delivery and drivability of the car.

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Rough around the edges/needs some refinement (i.e. how it installs, fit/finish, any hiccups other than the CEL etc)? Or do you feel like it's pretty near prime time?

The installation was a snap, but then again I have built an airplane and rebuilt motorcycles...so maybe I'm not the "average guy". Even so, I thought the installation went flawlessly. I've made some recommendations Rob to help the process. I think the fit and finish of the compressor and motor are damn near perfect. The packaging of the controller/charger is very well done. From photos you may think that the throttle switch is lacking, but the truth is it's a solid design. It would be nice if there were two attachment points for the switch, but the design of the OEM throttle leaves few (no) options. I think an installer would do well to strap the three batteries together (around the sides). I also would like to find a better way to install the controller...but once again, there are just limited options. The controller needs to be mounted as close as possible to the compressor and the batteries...I can't think of another location...but maybe a different bracket. Maybe a winter project.

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

How does the transition feel from part throttle to ESC engaged? I know you're sans tuned - I'm just curious how well the system integrates on a non-tuned car (know CEL issues aside). Gracias!

It feels like any well integrated turbo. Boost hits hard in the lower rpm's. Boost doesn't build as it does on a turbo or SC...but then again, boost doesn't come on in a turbo or SC like it does with the ESC. When I first installed the ESC it took about 500ms for it to spool up. Now that the batteries are conditioned, it's probably just 250ms. Oh, something else...with the radio off you can hear this thing spool up. It sounds quite cool.

The travel on the -86 throttle is so short that it doesn't seem unnatural to put the throttle to the floor. Heck, before I installed the ESC my throttle was usually at WOT. Now when I go WOT, something actually happens.

Is it ready for primetime? I can't answer that because the final product is not my vision, it's Robs. With that said, I'm 100% satisfied with the result.

The part I really (and I do mean really) like; 99% of the time I don't need the power, so the car is as economical as its always been. But when I want to pass, accelerate or just hear my exhaust howl, power is just about 3 inches of travel away...and then it's back to the way it was. 5 to 10 seconds of boost is a lot on public roads. Yes, the ESC will make boost for many multiples of this time, but on the street...with 10 seconds of boost, you'll be exceeding any speed limit in North America.

When Rob makes this available, buy it. If you've read through 1,800+ posts for all of these months, you know what the ESC is and what it isn't. You wont be disappointed. It delivers. It really is the ultimate bolt-on.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

It's a great addition to an already fun platform. The only complaint I've had about my BRZ has been power delivery (or lack thereof) below 5000 rpm. The ESC completely remedies this lack of performance. Every review you read about the -86 makes this same comment - so it's no surprise. What would be surprising to any of those magazine reviewers is how this simple device transforms the power delivery and drivability of the car.



The installation was a snap, but then again I have built an airplane and rebuilt motorcycles...so maybe I'm not the "average guy". Even so, I thought the installation went flawlessly. I've made some recommendations Rob to help the process. I think the fit and finish of the compressor and motor are damn near perfect. The packaging of the controller/charger is very well done. From photos you may think that the throttle switch is lacking, but the truth is it's a solid design. It would be nice if there were two attachment points for the switch, but the design of the OEM throttle leaves few (no) options. I think an installer would do well to strap the three batteries together (around the sides). I also would like to find a better way to install the controller...but once again, there are just limited options. The controller needs to be mounted as close as possible to the compressor and the batteries...I can't think of another location...but maybe a different bracket. Maybe a winter project.



It feels like any well integrated turbo. Boost hits hard in the lower rpm's. Boost doesn't build as it does on a turbo or SC...but then again, boost doesn't come on in a turbo or SC like it does with the ESC. When I first installed the ESC it took about 500ms for it to spool up. Now that the batteries are conditioned, it's probably just 250ms. Oh, something else...with the radio off you can hear this thing spool up. It sounds quite cool.

The travel on the -86 throttle is so short that it doesn't seem unnatural to put the throttle to the floor. Heck, before I installed the ESC my throttle was usually at WOT. Now when I go WOT, something actually happens.

Is it ready for primetime? I can't answer that because the final product is not my vision, it's Robs. With that said, I'm 100% satisfied with the result.

The part I really (and I do mean really) like; 99% of the time I don't need the power, so the car is as economical as its always been. But when I want to pass, accelerate or just hear my exhaust howl, power is just about 3 inches of travel away...and then it's back to the way it was. 5 to 10 seconds of boost is a lot on public roads. Yes, the ESC will make boost for many multiples of this time, but on the street...with 10 seconds of boost, you'll be exceeding any speed limit in North America.

When Rob makes this available, buy it. If you've read through 1,800+ posts for all of these months, you know what the ESC is and what it isn't. You wont be disappointed. It delivers. It really is the ultimate bolt-on.

Brilliant. Thank you for the concise and well thought out post. That's a pretty strong endorsement, especially for a non-tuned car! I think a lot of people will be very excited once this thing becomes publicly available...

[jpit]

What exactly does the arming switch do? Why wouldn't you leave it on all the time? Also,
doesn't the compressor operate slightly to avoid cutting the amount of air entering the intake manifold when not having a WOT?

[fenton]

Originally Posted by jpit

What exactly does the arming switch do? Why wouldn't you leave it on all the time? Also,
doesn't the compressor operate slightly to avoid cutting the amount of air entering the intake manifold when not having a WOT?

You should leave the arming switch off when the car is off because it will eventually kill the battery. Just think, you are driving around using the supercharger and you shut the car off. Your main battery is still going to top up the dump batteries after the car is off(with system still on). If the main battery goes below a certain voltage the ecu can tell the car to not start.

The compressor is very large and air can pass though it normally as it free wheels. Once it becomes a restriction later on in the rpm drag reduction starts it spinning to equalize pressure.

Long story short.... Car on system armed..... Car off system off.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

[fenton]

Originally Posted by fenton

You should leave the arming switch off when the car is off because it will eventually kill the battery. Just think, you are driving around using the supercharger and you shut the car off. Your main battery is still going to top up the dump batteries after the car is off(with system still on). If the main battery goes below a certain voltage the ecu can tell the car to not start.

The compressor is very large and air can pass though it normally as it free wheels. Once it becomes a restriction later on in the rpm drag reduction starts it spinning to equalize pressure.

Long story short.... Car on system armed..... Car off system off.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

I should also mention that under no circumstance should you arm the device while already wot! It is extremely hard on the control box and Rob said if you did it even a couple times you are likely to blow the capacitors in the controller.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

[jpit]

Why couldn't the arm switch be connected to a 12V source that turns off when the ignition is off to prevent the batteries from discharging?

[Pug]

@jpit That's one of the things my advanced monitor does; it replaces the arm switch with a relay keyed off the 12V accessory with a microprocessor-controlled timer (not ignition, I'm too lazy for that).

Alternatively, you can add a relay to the engine bay with an add-a-fuse, but there's no way that I've found yet to do it on a BRZ without drilling a hole in the fuse box. Be sure to use a DPDT or DPST relay though, as there are two circuits that must be broken.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

But when I want to pass, accelerate or just hear my exhaust howl, power is just about 3 inches of travel away...and then it's back to the way it was. 5 to 10 seconds of boost is a lot on public roads. Yes, the ESC will make boost for many multiples of this time, but on the street...with 10 seconds of boost, you'll be exceeding any speed limit in North America.

UPDATE

Was thinking about this the other day so i tried to record some video's.

I got 2 video's 1 is just 10 seconds acceleration starting at bottom of third and into 4th(sorry window open)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1XvfYcm0es"]FRS Brz phantom electric supercharger 3rd to 4th - YouTube[/ame]



The next i did in 4th gear and only managed 4 seconds of acceleration which took me from 80 to almost 140!
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl5aN3oQaOk"]FRS brz phantom supercharger 4th gear - YouTube[/ame]



PS. Look at that recharge, its almost instant!!

[rusty959]

Originally Posted by fenton

UPDATE

Was thinking about this the other day so i tried to record some video's.

I got 2 video's 1 is just 10 seconds acceleration starting at bottom of third and into 4th(sorry window open)

The next i did in 4th gear and only managed 4 seconds of acceleration which took me from 80 to almost 140!


PS. Look at that recharge, its almost instant!!

This has been said before, but just because the voltage jumps back up to 28.3v does not mean it is recharged. So you are fair to say "PS. Look at how fast it starts recharging again, its almost instant!!" but not that it is recharged as saying recharge is almost instant implies.

Additionally, just because your voltage drops to 21v doesn't mean it is discharged, just that it is at the time discharging. It dropping so low while you have it engaged due to internal resistance in the battery and possibly wires and such. Now over a period of it discharging yes the voltage will drop further due to loss of charge.

This might be a point of interest because if you kept the voltage up higher due to better batteries or capacitor bank you would get better performance. On that note, what is the resting voltage of your batteries?

[Robftss]

Originally Posted by rusty959

This has been said before, but just because the voltage jumps back up to 28.3v does not mean it is recharged. So you are fair to say "PS. Look at how fast it starts recharging again, its almost instant!!" but not that it is recharged as saying recharge is almost instant implies.

Additionally, just because your voltage drops to 21v doesn't mean it is discharged, just that it is at the time discharging. It dropping so low while you have it engaged due to internal resistance in the battery and possibly wires and such. Now over a period of it discharging yes the voltage will drop further due to loss of charge.

This might be a point of interest because if you kept the voltage up higher due to better batteries or capacitor bank you would get better performance. On that note, what is the resting voltage of your batteries?

Yes, not instant.

Referring to the '4sec boost' vid:
21V is Vdrop during discharge/engagement, ~28.0V recovery, then charge.
Fenton's set up is ~ 4:1, so 4 sec (boost) and 16 sec to restored used capacity but dump pack has ~1:00 minute of sustained capacity.
The voltmeter is just for reference of current condition and a diagnostic tool for me.
Resting is 25.5V as with all SLA's in this configuration.

Rob.

[rusty959]

Originally Posted by Robftss

Yes, not instant.

Referring to the '4sec boost' vid:
21V is Vdrop during discharge/engagement, ~28.0V recovery, then charge.
Fenton's set up is ~ 4:1, so 4 sec (boost) and 16 sec to restored used capacity but dump pack has ~1:00 minute of sustained capacity.
The voltmeter is just for reference of current condition and a diagnostic tool for me.
Resting is 25.5V as with all SLA's in this configuration.

Rob.

Sounds about right. And honestly for me, a 4:1 ratio is perfect. I doubt I would ever top that.

25.5V is about what I was expecting. I'm just curious how a setup like this would run with say a few hundred farads or so in parallel. If that 21V could be held closer to that 25V range the performance benefit would be pretty substantial. I know this has been talked about here and there but as far as I know hasn't been tried. Someone should send a kit to @neutron256 and let him throw his caps he has laying around on it to see what happens.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by rusty959

This has been said before, but just because the voltage jumps back up to 28.3v does not mean it is recharged. So you are fair to say "PS. Look at how fast it starts recharging again, its almost instant!!" but not that it is recharged as saying recharge is almost instant implies.

Additionally, just because your voltage drops to 21v doesn't mean it is discharged, just that it is at the time discharging. It dropping so low while you have it engaged due to internal resistance in the battery and possibly wires and such. Now over a period of it discharging yes the voltage will drop further due to loss of charge.

This might be a point of interest because if you kept the voltage up higher due to better batteries or capacitor bank you would get better performance. On that note, what is the resting voltage of your batteries?

You are correct. The point that i was really trying to make was what 4- 10 seconds of boost equalled in terms of raw speed.

[autobrz]

Anyone had a chance to dyno the ESC with just drag reduction mode and hopefully vs completely off the same day for comparison?

This might sound crazy but I might get this kit and run it in drag reduction mode only. 10-20lb-ft more than stock peak torque everywhere will be about perfect for me.

I have a question, if the drag reduction works off the manifold pressure to control motor speed, why can't it be used to maintain boost (pressure) when WOT as well?

[fenton]

Originally Posted by autobrz

Anyone had a chance to dyno the ESC with just drag reduction mode and hopefully vs completely off the same day for comparison?

This might sound crazy but I might get this kit and run it in drag reduction mode only. 10-20lb-ft more than stock peak torque everywhere will be about perfect for me.

I have a question, if the drag reduction works off the manifold pressure to control motor speed, why can't it be used to maintain boost (pressure) when WOT as well?

Ill let Rob respond to this properly.

Maybe you can elaborate as well, are you meaning to maintain boost in the higher RPM?

Because keeping boost up requires more motor speed, and amps which both the motor and the controller are not capable.