OpenFlash Tuning Tech: Nip that Dip

[elrod]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Emissions compliance and fuel economy targets.

I realize that this is an unusual question for this kind of thread but ...
I would certainly like the boost in power and torque that the baseline tune provides in everyday driving, but what about highway MPG? On those occasions when I take a trip of 300 or so miles, would I still be able to achieve around 30 MPG cruising down the highway with a stage I tune?

[garfull]

i've noticed only a 1/2 mpg decrease since changing to the V1.1 tune. don't know if this is due to the tune or that i'm enjoying the car more. i think its the later.

Originally Posted by elrod

I realize that this is an unusual question for this kind of thread but ...
I would certainly like the boost in power and torque that the baseline tune provides in everyday driving, but what about highway MPG? On those occasions when I take a trip of 300 or so miles, would I still be able to achieve around 30 MPG cruising down the highway with a stage I tune?

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by elrod

I realize that this is an unusual question for this kind of thread but ...
I would certainly like the boost in power and torque that the baseline tune provides in everyday driving, but what about highway MPG? On those occasions when I take a trip of 300 or so miles, would I still be able to achieve around 30 MPG cruising down the highway with a stage I tune?

As garfull said, you really shouldn't see a difference in fuel economy during cruise since very little mapping changes were done at light load conditions. Certainly nothing to make mpg take a turn for the worse. And under load, the new maps target a leaner-than-stock AFR and run more ignition advance so it should have been overall fuel economy, all things equal. Of course, after a tune, people tend to drive with a heavier right foot

[mid_life_crisis]

I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this question because to the ecu a flash is a flash, but any chance this Tablet and software can camouflage the fact that the thing has been tuned if you put it back to stock for dealer visits?

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by arghx7

I would think that what you ended up doing here was retarding the exhaust closing timing a bunch (hence the 30 degree difference at mid range). I would expect that to give a later blowdown and more scavenging. The factory tune was probably set that way to keep too much oxygen from passing through the engine and heating up the cat through exothermic reactions.

This makes me nervous. Is this power at the long term cost of a catalytic converter down the road?

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this question because to the ecu a flash is a flash, but any chance this Tablet and software can camouflage the fact that the thing has been tuned if you put it back to stock for dealer visits?

ahhh fun times with the neverending quest to sucker punch the warranty.

[FRSTEVE]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

This makes me nervous. Is this power at the long term cost of a catalytic converter down the road?

FWIW - i've run some pretty high powered cars in CA (400WHP, 500WHP and 600WHP+) ... i've had the cats on a few of the for a while and ran 100s of gallons of leaded gas and still passed emissions. Never really had any concerns about cats.

If you are concerned, when you're up for a smog check, you can always purchase a "newly, used" stock part (header, front pipe) that someone is selling to pass the test, which is the worst case scenario (1hr of labor and you're done for a few years).

New cars in CA get smogged after 5 years.

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

ahhh fun times with the neverending quest to sucker punch the warranty.

I figure minor mods like N/A tuned shouldn't cost your warranty. The car should be built well enough to handle it. Now a turbo at 10 psi boost is another story...

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

I figure minor mods like N/A tuned shouldn't cost your warranty. The car should be built well enough to handle it. Now a turbo at 10 psi boost is another story...

What you "think" or deem acceptable has nothing to do with it. Its what is written on paper.

You are not loosing the warranty of your entire car. I have changed DRLs bringing my car in turbo because that part has nothing to do with it. But this is besides the point.

[arghx7]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

This makes me nervous. Is this power at the long term cost of a catalytic converter down the road?

Short answer: don't worry about it, only an emissions lab would ever be able to tell.

Detailed answer: The only thing you as an enthusiast would care about is whether it throws a code, whether it fails a visual (if your inspection enforces a visual check), and whether it would fail a basic tailpipe test which measure concentration in ppm. On all three of those, you should be fine. Now, if I were in charge of Toyota's in-use testing program for EPA and CARB, would I test your car and send results to the EPA? Heck no. There's a reason why only catbacks are legal in Cali. Any engine mod you do beyond that can cause a drastic increase in emissions (percentage wise at least) over the life of the vehicle due to accelerated degradation of the cat, changing sensor accuracy (aftermarket intake), or changing AFR (reducing open loop delay).

BUT unless it's totally dead, you can only see a degraded cat in a "real" government emissions test with expensive sampling equipment. CA smog stations don't have the proper equipment, which costs millions of dollars. The OBD code p0420 only goes off when emissions are something like 1.5 times the legislated limits (I'd have to check the regs). If that light goes off, your cat is already fucked from an emissions standpoint.

Originally Posted by FRSTEVE

FWIW - i've run some pretty high powered cars in CA (400WHP, 500WHP and 600WHP+) ... i've had the cats on a few of the for a while and ran 100s of gallons of leaded gas and still passed emissions. Never really had any concerns about cats.

This doesn't surprise me. Cali emissions tests are strict compared to other states but they're not strict compared to what the tests the manufacturer is required to do on their own cars after they've been in service. They have to be tested after 1 year and 4 years in service, and the results go to the EPA and CARB.

Most people are going to mod their car, turn off the CEL at some point, and never worry about the cat ever again.

[mid_life_crisis]

I don't suppose you have a dyno comparing stock to just tuned for those of us who don't want to buy all kinds of bolt-ons.

[Robert@Openflash]

Here is what you are looking for: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...ght=vishnu+OFT

This is a comparison between Stock VS Vishnu OFT Tune. *No bolt ons

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

I don't suppose you have a dyno comparing stock to just tuned for those of us who don't want to buy all kinds of bolt-ons.

[mid_life_crisis]

@shiv@vishnu Would you consider this a relatively "safe" tune, one that pushes the envelope a little or conservative for someone who has access to 93 octane?

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

@shiv@vishnu Would you consider this a relatively "safe" tune, one that pushes the envelope a little or conservative for someone who has access to 93 octane?

Our OTS maps are absolutely safe. No changes that I would consider extreme by any means. Just fixed some stuff that should have been fixed in the first place (but weren't presumably due to emissions compliance constraints).