FR-S vs. BMW E92 335i

[Mike]

If it handles like it's on rails, you're not going fast enough.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Mike

If it handles like it's on rails, you're not going fast enough.

[Max Schnell]

I drove it on public streets for a week not on a racetrack. Lets not forget if you are talking about daily driving experience it is most likely not on a racetrack so you should not be cornering so hard that your are drifting around corners (for safety reasons).

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Max Schnell

I drove it on public streets for a week not on a racetrack. Lets not forget if you are talking about daily driving experience it is most likely not on a racetrack so you should not be cornering so hard that your are drifting around corners (for safety reasons).

I'll put it like this. If you aren't going to the racetrack but you want something sporty and fun on public roads I think the 335i Sport Pkg is the way to go.

But if you go to the track a lot then there is no other choice here, I would choose FRS/BRZ end of story.

[pastuch]

Other than the fact that 92 series of BMWs look like Camrys it's a nice car. Honestly, the most uninspired BMW design ever. I loathe the E92.

[Dsbj]

Originally Posted by pastuch

Other than the fact that 92 series of BMWs look like Camrys it's a nice car. Honestly, the most uninspired BMW design ever. I loathe the E92.

Of course, I have a different opinion.

[zoomzoomers]

Originally Posted by Dsbj

Of course, I have a different opinion.

Nice car! What kind of rims do you got there?

[Dsbj]

They're 19" VMR 701's. That picture is roughly a year old. Need a new photoshoot as I've since upgraded sideskirts, bumper, lip spoiler and vented hood.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Max Schnell

Say what you will. There is a point where certain level of power simply matches the other abilities of the car perfectly. In that situation you will have more fun than having a brilliant chassis that is underpowered. I do not think I would be fully satisfied with only half of the equation.

I personally would not trade a 335i daily driver for a BRZ daily driver. The BRZ is better as a secondary fun car/track slut.

If I had a 335i daily driver, I *would* replace it with an FR-S/BRZ.

I LOVE driving a well balanced/well-suspended lightweight rwd car every day. Dailying the S2000, I almost never get in to VTEC (at the track, never *out* of VTEC!). The way i drive it on the street, it's essentially a 150hp/2750 lb. car, and it's fricking BRILLIANT! IMO the S2000 is one of the best all-around sports cars of all time.

The FR-S/BRZ will exceed S2000 performance out of VTEC, which is how I drive it on the street 99% of the time. I predict that it will be a BLAST to drive every day.

I've said it before, to me, driving a smaller lightweight car, even WAY below its limits tooling around on the street, is inherently more FUN than driving a 3600 lb. behemoth.

Not to say that I don't appreciate power, though. I did want a daily-driveable car that would be faster than my now-departed 240Z at the track, so to satisfy the power/weight requirement I got a 500+ hp LS2 RX-7

[SUB-FT86]

To me a lot of cars don't feel as heavy as the curb weight suggest. My RSX feels like its weight primarily because it's underpowered like almost every car around its weight. When I drove a 3.8 Track model GC it felt like it was 300 lbs heavier than my car instead of 600 lbs heavier. And the balance of the car was better also and it didn't feel like it carried to much weight in body roll. I call it clever engineering when you can make a 3400 lb car feel like 3100 lbs. I have yet to feel a lightweight sports car that feels even lighter than its weight.

When I drove the 335i it felt much heavier than the GC 3.8 Track and more comfortable but I still liked it.

[ZDan]

If you only feel the weight while accelerating, I don't think you're really FEELING the car.

Hell, my wife's old '93 Tercel definitely felt every bit of 1000 lb. lighter than the Mazda3 that replaced it, despite the 3 being much quicker, capable of greater lateral acceleration, and cornering flatter. As much better as the 3 is, there was something more *fun* about the 2200 lb. Tercel.

A stock 240Z is WAY the hell slower in a straight line and around corners than a 370Z, but it feels 2000 lb. lighter (even though there's "only" 1000 lb. difference).

Heavy cars definitely FEEL heavy, even if they have more than enough power and grip to make up for it from a raw numbers perspective.

An S2000 *feels* MUCH lighter-weight than a Corvette (more so than the actual 500 lb. difference), despite not being able to accelerate anything like as quickly.

Anyway, if Hyundai actually CAN make a 3400 lb. Gen Coupe feel like 3100 lb., I have confidence that Subaru/Toyota can make a 2700 lb. car feel like 2460 lb.

If raw acceleration is the only way you sense vehicle weight, then maybe the Gen Coupe or Mustang make more sense. Hopefully this isn't the case!

[SUB-FT86]

You can't force your opinion about weight onto me. I know what feels heavy to medium to light and my RSX felt only 300 lbs lighter than the 3.8 Track. My GF owns a 2000 2300 lb civic Dx which feels much heavier than my car and I hate that car with a passion.

Listen to Rhys at 1:29 seconds.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

You can't force your opinion about weight onto me.

I know I can't. 99% of the motoring public don't appreciate lightweight sports/sporty cars. Hence, we hardly ever get any! A shame...

I know what feels heavy to medium to light and my RSX felt only 300 lbs lighter than the 3.8 Track. My GF owns a 2000 2300 lb civic Dx which feels much heavier than my car and I hate that car with a passion.

Listen to Rhys at 1:29 seconds.

Ah, motor trend, the cheerleadiest of the industry-cheerleading US automags. And do you reckon Rhys Millen is a purely objective source regarding Hyundai?

*If* Hyundai coul build a 3400 lb. car that feels like 2400 (I seriously doubt it would feel like 2400 lb. to *me*), Subie/Toyota could build a 2700 lb. car that feels like less than 2000 lb.

If weight isn't important, for sure you should get the Hyundai.

[Dsbj]

Originally Posted by ZDan

If I had a 335i daily driver, I *would* replace it with an FR-S/BRZ.

I LOVE driving a well balanced/well-suspended lightweight rwd car every day. Dailying the S2000, I almost never get in to VTEC (at the track, never *out* of VTEC!). The way i drive it on the street, it's essentially a 150hp/2750 lb. car, and it's fricking BRILLIANT! IMO the S2000 is one of the best all-around sports cars of all time.

The FR-S/BRZ will exceed S2000 performance out of VTEC, which is how I drive it on the street 99% of the time. I predict that it will be a BLAST to drive every day.

I've said it before, to me, driving a smaller lightweight car, even WAY below its limits tooling around on the street, is inherently more FUN than driving a 3600 lb. behemoth.

Not to say that I don't appreciate power, though. I did want a daily-driveable car that would be faster than my now-departed 240Z at the track, so to satisfy the power/weight requirement I got a 500+ hp LS2 RX-7

I won't deny that these featherweights are great fun. In fact, that's why I almost threw practicality out the window and got the s2000 over the 335i. Then common sense kicked in and reminded me I have 2 kids that need a ride to school and putting one in the trunk might be a tad harsh.

In the end, the 335i made the most sense. Beyond the practical 4setas, it has a host of features the s2000 didn't have. Now I know this won't mean jack to many but it's worth stating... Things like Keyless Comfort Access, Heated leather seats, moonroof, large trunk, interior materials, hp/tq, tuning capability, HID, sound system, 6yr/100 CPO warranty, etc. So, it may not as fun as a S2000 but it has a lot of creature comforts that make up for it.

That was comparing the S2000 to the 335i. When comparing the FRS to the 335i, the decision becomes much tougher. I plan to test drive right when it debuts. It might be reason enough to snatch it up immediately. However, after taking some huge losses on previous new-car-purchases, I've promised myself that I'd do the smart thing and only buy used. A 2yr old FRS for around 18k sounds like a great deal IF I can manage to stay away that long! We shall see.