Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Pug

So, I've done this one of the days it rained here this season (recently)... the first time I did it was with the full stability control enabled. I thought the engine bogged down and was jolting the car around, but no! The ESC was firing the rear brakes like mad and freaking me out.

30 seconds later I had turned on VSC sport and hoooo boy, yeah, the OEM tires spun out at 2700 RPM (logged) at 3.9 PSI (calculated) on a wet road. It was FUN.

Not sure if it's the altitude or what, but highest (calculated) boost I've gotten so far is 4.4 PSI, 3rd gear around 4200 RPM; this is calculated using Torque for Android's math.

Oh ya boost plus traction control is not a good mix. Has to do with the throttle fuel cut plus adding extra boost.

I drive around in vsc sport all the time and it is a blast



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[fenton]

Originally Posted by VR46

Can you elaborate on this?

Most engines never see 5psi this low and this quickly. You go from putting to flying and in a 2.0 2000rpm is close to the bog territory...you know where the engine isn't even happy going wot in NA mode.

The best place to go wot is about 3000 rpm because you absolutely rocket through the tq dip and 4200 rpm is the biggest gain from stock so you really notice it.

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[Yruyur]

Originally Posted by fenton

Most engines never see 5psi this low and this quickly. You go from putting to flying and in a 2.0 2000rpm is close to the bog territory...you know where the engine isn't even happy going wot in NA mode.

The best place to go wot is about 3000 rpm because you absolutely rocket through the tq dip and 4200 rpm is the biggest gain from stock so you really notice it.

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I agree. I just got to drive @Pug 's car back to back with my own car. Feels really good. Its nice having that power down below. Not its not shoving you into the back of your seat like some 500 hp monster but really makes the car come alive.

Before you know it you are going faster than you expected. Went to and area that had side by side turn abouts. Getting on it around 3k and you would just zip through them. I could imagine this would be extremely fun on autocross or some twisties in the canyon.

I do think he may lose on my definitely on the top end compared to my flex fuel but that would be expected. Im running flex fuel and have been dyno tuned.

This kit with e85 and other supporting mods would be even more amazing.

Im not really sure why people are calling this a toy. Im not really sure I care at this point either after driving it. You could call it a purple duck. The fact it adds some umph to the car and makes it even more fun to drive.

Thanks @Pug for being a tester in az for this thing. Its supposed to be 104 today.

Sent from a Motorola DynaTAC 8000X

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Yruyur

I agree. I just got to drive @Pug 's car back to back with my own car. Feels really good. Its nice having that power down below. Not its not shoving you into the back of your seat like some 500 hp monster but really makes the car come alive.

Before you know it you are going faster than you expected. Went to and area that had side by side turn abouts. Getting on it around 3k and you would just zip through them. I could imagine this would be extremely fun on autocross or some twisties in the canyon.

I do think he may lose on my definitely on the top end compared to my flex fuel but that would be expected. Im running flex fuel and have been dyno tuned.

This kit with e85 and other supporting mods would be even more amazing.

Im not really sure why people are calling this a toy. Im not really sure I care at this point either after driving it. You could call it a purple duck. The fact it adds some umph to the car and makes it even more fun to drive.

Thanks @Pug for being a tester in az for this thing. Its supposed to be 104 today.

Sent from a Motorola DynaTAC 8000X

Thanks for the 3rd party opinions on the kit.

The one thing that is deceiving about this kit is there is so much torque down low the top end doesn't feel as strong as it really is.

I remember when I got it first installed I could sure feel it down low but wasn't sure of the effects up top.

Anyways really glad more people are getting to try this out

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[NoChance]

I'm curious, why not program the electronics in the turbo motor controller to come on at say half throttle instead of just WOT, but also make it so that it would increase in RPM from 0% of boost potential at 49% throttle to 100% of potential boost at WOT?

[Gary in NJ]

At this point the system uses a simple throttle position switch. There isn't any connection or logic between the ESC controller and the cars ECU. If the ECU were able to communicate with the ECU that would be possible.

[bfrank1972]

The nature of this system seems to be "keep it simple", which keeps it affordable and gives it a real chance to make it to market soon. If you check out the open source esc thread, there are many more ideas and grand plans. I agree it's a good long term goal, especially if they figure out a way to produce a high output version of the system where the transition to full boost would be more pronounced. Evolution!

[SpyderMS]

Don't forget about battery life as well. Making it so it only turns on at WOT means you're not using it as often, which in turn means the batteries aren't being drained as much. Would suck to be racing around and then you step on it hard but the whole thing chokes cause you already drained the batteries.

[Pug]

Here are two other quick reviews from yesterday's meetup, reposted from the Arizona club thread:

Pug gave me a ride in his car. I liked it alot. Plenty of power for the street IMHO. I'd be much more likely to spend $1500 on one of these than 3 times the amount on a turbo but that's just my opinion. The turbo will make more power but not worth the extra cash to me. I could get in more than enough trouble with this set up.
- 40flash

It has great pull at low end rpm. Really smooth. Very impressive!!! Thanks again Pug
- jeffsides

[mid_life_crisis]

I still wish there were a way to link it to rpm so that the boost is limited below a preset level. I had a factory turbocharged four cylinder about 20 years ago that held the wastegate open electronically until 3000 rpm. That worked fine. In this case I just want to limit the boost below a set point. It'd be easy to work something out to prevent it from engaging at all below a certain rpm, but being able to limit it would be better. I'm not talking part throttle maps or anything that fancy. If Rob can come up with something that senses a pressure differential and spins the compressor to eliminate it, it shouldn't be too hard to link something to rpm that holds the compressor to 50% until the rpm is high enough. This might also eliminate that pesky CEL without requiring a tune or voltage clamps on the sensor, which I never liked. I'm always afraid the car will go lean (and go boom) if the ECU thinks there is less air than there really is.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

I still wish there were a way to link it to rpm so that the boost is limited below a preset level. I had a factory turbocharged four cylinder about 20 years ago that held the wastegate open electronically until 3000 rpm. That worked fine. In this case I just want to limit the boost below a set point. It'd be easy to work something out to prevent it from engaging at all below a certain rpm, but being able to limit it would be better. I'm not talking part throttle maps or anything that fancy. If Rob can come up with something that senses a pressure differential and spins the compressor to eliminate it, it shouldn't be too hard to link something to rpm that holds the compressor to 50% until the rpm is high enough. This might also eliminate that pesky CEL without requiring a tune or voltage clamps on the sensor, which I never liked. I'm always afraid the car will go lean (and go boom) if the ECU thinks there is less air than there really is.

Voltage clamps would only ever be on the MAP which isnt used for AFR calculations in our ECU.

What you are talking about will drain the battery way to fast. Inorder to run something like this you would need a battery bank in your trunk which is WAY more than most people want out of this system.

The reason Drag Reduction works so well is that it doesn't actually create positive pressure and doesn't have to work that hard. As soon as you get into creating pressure you are pretty much going all out on the electric motor.

Remember we are only making 4-5psi down low and 2 up top, there isn't much to take away from that.

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by fenton

Voltage clamps would only ever be on the MAP which isnt used for AFR calculations in our ECU.

What you are talking about will drain the battery way to fast. Inorder to run something like this you would need a battery bank in your trunk which is WAY more than most people want out of this system.

The reason Drag Reduction works so well is that it doesn't actually create positive pressure and doesn't have to work that hard. As soon as you get into creating pressure you are pretty much going all out on the electric motor.

Remember we are only making 4-5psi down low and 2 up top, there isn't much to take away from that.

You misunderstand. I'm not talking about removing the full throttle engagement switch. I'm fully aware of how impractical that is. I want to limit boost when the system engages if below a certain rpm, 3000 for example. This system has exactly the reverse boost curve of just about every other supercharging system in existence. It makes most at low rpm and tapers off at higher instead of making less at lower rpm and building as the revs climb. This means that it has the potential to beat the crap out of the engine if a lead footed driver steps into it hard at very low rpm on a regular basis (stoplight launches anyone?). I want to prevent that.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

I still wish there were a way to link it to rpm so that the boost is limited below a preset level. I had a factory turbocharged four cylinder about 20 years ago that held the wastegate open electronically until 3000 rpm. That worked fine. In this case I just want to limit the boost below a set point. It'd be easy to work something out to prevent it from engaging at all below a certain rpm, but being able to limit it would be better. I'm not talking part throttle maps or anything that fancy. If Rob can come up with something that senses a pressure differential and spins the compressor to eliminate it, it shouldn't be too hard to link something to rpm that holds the compressor to 50% until the rpm is high enough. This might also eliminate that pesky CEL without requiring a tune or voltage clamps on the sensor, which I never liked. I'm always afraid the car will go lean (and go boom) if the ECU thinks there is less air than there really is.

Okay i am reading this again and see what your saying. Trust me people are going to want the kick that you get rather than just a little bit of boost and progressive to 100%.

You would be taking ALL the fun out of the thing if you did the above

Rob and Pug are working on the V clamp on the MAP to get rid of the CEL, as it stands though the best way to enjoy this thing is with Toma's or Drift offices tune.

I can understand not wanting to flash your ECU but with performance this high it is much safer to flash your ECU than not.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

You misunderstand. I'm not talking about removing the full throttle engagement switch. I'm fully aware of how impractical that is. I want to limit boost when the system engages if below a certain rpm, 3000 for example. This system has exactly the reverse boost curve of just about every other supercharging system in existence. It makes most at low rpm and tapers off at higher instead of making less at lower rpm and building as the revs climb. This means that it has the potential to beat the crap out of the engine if a lead footed driver steps into it hard at very low rpm on a regular basis (stoplight launches anyone?). I want to prevent that.

Because this system is so simple you have to use a little bit of common sense, just like you would with n2o.

You should not under any circumstances go 100% foot to the floor at 1000 rpm.... thats just crazy and i dont think anybody would do that.

That being said, replacing the WOT switch with a RPM dependent switch is VERY easy and honestly not that expensive should anyone want to do that.