Is going all catless on a na fa20 motor such a good idea?

[StormTrooper]

Since I lit off this discussion I'd like to throw out a few things for those uninformed.

Was acid rain common place from the invention of the automobile until 1975 ( U.S market makes converters mandatory * didn't get rid of NOx) or was it 1992 when Europe placed widespread regulations requiring cats?


I work at a facility which owes it's existence to removing NOx from a process. They used to just dump it into the air and guess what no acid rain.


Does it stink? Yes can it cause rasp? Yes . is it a temporary air pollutant? Yes. Is it technically illegal to tamper with emissions control devices in the U.S? Yes. Do older cars without controls still cause less harm than manufacturing new ones? Yes.

So in short does removing the cat from a small car cause acid rain and make the world end? No .

[Simply_the_best]

Originally Posted by StormTrooper

Since I lit off this discussion I'd like to throw out a few things for those uninformed.

Was acid rain common place from the invention of the automobile until 1975 ( U.S market makes converters mandatory * didn't get rid of NOx) or was it 1992 when Europe placed widespread regulations requiring cats?


I work at a facility which owes it's existence to removing NOx from a process. They used to just dump it into the air and guess what no acid rain.


Does it stink? Yes can it cause rasp? Yes . is it a temporary air pollutant? Yes. Is it technically illegal to tamper with emissions control devices in the U.S? Yes. Do older cars without controls still cause less harm than manufacturing new ones? Yes.

So in short does removing the cat from a small car cause acid rain and make the world end? No .

Am I still going to remove the cats from my car? YES.

[StormTrooper]

To put things into perspective, U.S emissions don't allow the sale of the Volkswagen 3cylinder diesel Europe enjoys (70+ mpg) because it emits too many pollutants per gallon but gets nearly %50 better mileage. Same thing for the small diesel ford commuters.

[FR-S Matt]

I can tell you, certain counties in Texas do things differently. In Tarrant county, (Fort Worth), you have to do a sniffer test along with your regular inspection. On my older 97 Formula, I had to cap my cut-out for that reason.

Here in Austin (actually Williamson county in Round Rock), we don't have the sniffer test, just a "visual" inspection. That may change later as the population increases further. I had 0 issues getting my 02' SS inspected with everything catless. I would keep the front pipe on the FR-S/BRZ catted for the visual part. The cat on the header isn't visible so I highly doubt people will check that or they will just assume it is there.

I only see things getting more and more strict as time goes by.

[StormTrooper]

I agree and just for the smell and noise I plan on keeping the second cat....just wanted to point out that running without isn't killing baby seal lions. The same way that a Prius does more harm than a Chevy Tahoe.

My suggestion for the OP is to keep one in the front pipe as a sniffer test or just a cop not smelling it and giving you hell is worth it

[SkAsphalt]

Originally Posted by StormTrooper

I agree and just for the smell and noise I plan on keeping the second cat....just wanted to point out that running without isn't killing baby seal lions. The same way that a Prius does more harm than a Chevy Tahoe.

My suggestion for the OP is to keep one in the front pipe as a sniffer test or just a cop not smelling it and giving you hell is worth it

But a Prius* does not do more harm than a Chevy Tahoe, especially if that Tahoe does not have CATS

*there are MANY variables that contribute to a Prius TOTAL CO2 production, depending where you live, which generation you buy, etc etc etc. it is not too bad

[StormTrooper]

Originally Posted by SkAsphalt

But a Prius* does not do more harm than a Chevy Tahoe, especially if that Tahoe does not have CATS

*there are MANY variables that contribute to a Prius TOTAL CO2 production, depending where you live, which generation you buy, etc etc etc. it is not too bad

It does when you you factor in manufacturing... Look it up.

[tennisfreak]

I intend on keeping catalytic converters on my car. I try to care about the environment and don't refuse to acknowledge the reasons catalytic converters are required/necessary or try to create false logic on why its ok to remove them.

Here are a few reasons, facts, and stats about catalytic converters:

"Catalytic converters decrease hydrocarbon emissions by about 87 percent, carbon monoxide by 85 percent and nitrous oxide by 62 percent during the expected life of a vehicle."

"In 1985, the Environmental Protection Agency estimated that catalytic converters saved at least 10 times more in health costs than the price of a catalytic converter."

"Engineers estimate that during the last 11 years 130 million catalytic converters used in the U.S. have eliminated automotive pollutants that-if unchecked and unabated-could have covered the country with a toxic blanket of carbon monoxide more than 500 feet deep."

"The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) data shows that due to emission controls, vehicles now sold in the U.S. emit 96 per cent less carbon monoxide, 98 per cent less hydrocarbons, and 90 per cent less oxides of nitrogen than vehicles sold in the early 1970s."

"Currently, 85 per cent of automotive air pollution in the U.S. comes from the oldest 50 per cent of vehicles on the road."

[clayrush]

Ill care when they limit the emissions of airliners.

[SkAsphalt]

Originally Posted by StormTrooper

It does when you you factor in manufacturing... Look it up.

you have no idea how much I dislike people like you. I am aware of how prius are manufactured. I have read the papers, seen the top gear rants, viewed the shipping maps of rare earth metals across oceans and the total CO2 for prius etc. I am aware of those claims.

I said there are variables that can be taken into account that would reduce the total C02 output of a prius - look those up.

Also, considering battery packs are lasting well past 500,000km (See NY taxi's, BC taxis, California Taxis, etc), most of those estimates are off because they were done for 200,000km battery pack replacements cycles.

Just because one person publishes a report doesn't mean you can throw it around at everyone.

Other annoying conversations
"Cows produce more methane than cars, clearly farmers are the leading cause of global warming". NO

[SkAsphalt]

Originally Posted by clayrush

Ill care when they limit the emissions of airliners.

They do. Start caring

[topazsparrow]

Originally Posted by clayrush

Ill care when they limit the emissions of airliners.

Freight ships are magnitudes worse

[Kelbyat07]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

I intend on keeping catalytic converters on my car. I try to care about the environment and don't refuse to acknowledge the reasons catalytic converters are required/necessary or try to create false logic on why its ok to remove them.

Here are a few reasons, facts, and stats about catalytic converters:

"Catalytic converters decrease hydrocarbon emissions by about 87 percent, carbon monoxide by 85 percent and nitrous oxide by 62 percent during the expected life of a vehicle."

"In 1985, the Environmental Protection Agency estimated that catalytic converters saved at least 10 times more in health costs than the price of a catalytic converter."

"Engineers estimate that during the last 11 years 130 million catalytic converters used in the U.S. have eliminated automotive pollutants that-if unchecked and unabated-could have covered the country with a toxic blanket of carbon monoxide more than 500 feet deep."

"The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) data shows that due to emission controls, vehicles now sold in the U.S. emit 96 per cent less carbon monoxide, 98 per cent less hydrocarbons, and 90 per cent less oxides of nitrogen than vehicles sold in the early 1970s."

"Currently, 85 per cent of automotive air pollution in the U.S. comes from the oldest 50 per cent of vehicles on the road."

I know that the catalytic converters are good for the environment but what about the effects on the engine?

[StormTrooper]

That makes no sense what so ever....if 11 years of cats stopped 500 feet of CO what happened during the first 90 plus years of automobiles?