8 Car Brands Falling Behind.....Scion on the list

[thill]

Originally Posted by joop1987

This is not true. Several Scion dealerships had a "Adjusted Market Value" added to the FR-S when it just came out. I contacted Scion and they said "Sorry, we can't do anything". Most dealers add a $500 document fee too.

I believe Pure Price only means they have to sell it for what they advertised it for. They can mark the car up $3K and sell it if they want as long as they advertise it that way.

I remember reading about lots of Scion dealers marking up cars when the FR-S first came out.

My local dealer did not. They were willing to sell me one for MSRP. Same with Subaru.

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by thill

I believe Pure Price only means they have to sell it for what they advertised it for. They can mark the car up $3K and sell it if they want as long as they advertise it that way.

I remember reading about lots of Scion dealers marking up cars when the FR-S first came out.

My local dealer did not. They were willing to sell me one for MSRP. Same with Subaru.

I was under the impression that Scion themselves set the price and the only thing dealers can do is tack on accessories, warranties, etc. My FR-S was 25,250, or whatever MSRP + destination was, no questions asked. I was told that the only discrepancy with the out-the-door price nationwide should be local and state taxes.

[thill]

Originally Posted by cfusionpm

I was under the impression that Scion themselves set the price and the only thing dealers can do is tack on accessories, warranties, etc. My FR-S was 25,250, or whatever MSRP + destination was, no questions asked. I was told that the only discrepancy with the out-the-door price nationwide should be local and state taxes.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4641

Lots of threads about this, and lots of people reported gross markups.

From that thread:

After emailing scion, I was told:

"The pure price business model states that after the price has been posted by the dealer, the price cannot be further negotiated and should equal your sales transaction price. However, dealers do have the right to set their own pricing. The prices you see on our website are simply the MSRP (Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price), which doesn't include tax and will vary on availability and prices from dealer to dealer. The price set by the dealer cannot be further negotiated, to avoid any haggle and hassle, providing you with an easier sales process."

[Frstorm]

Thill- to keep scion license they must charge both apr and price on the website. The one difference is dealers can keep charges on them like process charge but come on who pays this just go to the next dealer who's less shady. This is coming from 09 when I bought me tc in Louisiana and this past spring from dealer I bought my frs.

[Meehow86]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Here's my idea...

Scion FR-S - Keep
Scion TC - Do away
Scion XB - Do away
Scion XD - Do away
Scion IQ - Do away
Scion MR2 - Add
Scion Supra - Add
Scion Someotherlegitimatesportscar - Add

Obviously people are starving for affordable actual-sports cars. Just a thought...

I'd keep the TC (or make it into a hot hatch) and have it compete with FWD cars like the Civic Si, GTI, Focus/Fiesta ST, Mazdaspeed 3. Otherwise I think your idea is perfect. Let Scion be all about affordable sports cars, Toyota can sell vanilla to the masses, and Lexus can sell luxury cars and crazy performance models (ISF, LFA).

[SigmaHyperion]

Originally Posted by Frstorm

Thill- to keep scion license they must charge both apr and price on the website. The one difference is dealers can keep charges on them like process charge but come on who pays this just go to the next dealer who's less shady. This is coming from 09 when I bought me tc in Louisiana and this past spring from dealer I bought my frs.

The price they charge only has to be the one on THEIR website, not Scion's.

Per Scion's website:

"Pure Price means that the dealer price you see posted - in an ad, on the dealer's website, or on a menu display board in the dealership - is the price you will pay."

Scion dealers can, and do, put markups on vehicles too if they think they can get people to pay it.

The whole idea of "Pure Price" is kinda stupid, IMHO. Walk into any dealership in the world, and say "I'll pay you sticker on any vehicle you have" and you'll be a dream customer. Scion manages to make that seem like it's something that benefits you. They can still haggle you on APR, stupid accessories, and exaggerated charges for rust protection, nano-wax, and window tint just the same as any other dealership.

[Frstorm]

Sigma- if they mod it they can charge hate ee for the mod but besides that they must charge SCION website prices or risk losing their license

[n2oinferno]

Scion's pure pricing is a load of bullshit. I hate playing the haggling game, but if you buy a new Scion you don't even get a choice. You just have to take what's given to you. At least with anyone else I have an idea of what the cars actually sell for under MSRP, and I can go in, tell them I'm willing to give them X amount, and walk if they don't like it.

[CAMBAM_6]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Here's my idea...

Scion FR-S - Keep
Scion TC - Do away
Scion XB - Do away
Scion XD - Do away
Scion IQ - Do away
Scion MR2 - Add
Scion Supra - Add
Scion Someotherlegitimatesportscar - Add

Obviously people are starving for affordable actual-sports cars. Just a thought...

BURN THIS POST WITH FIRE..DO IT NOOOWWWW!!!

Sir please do not ever, ever, ever put the word SCION in front of Supra or MR2...EVER!!

That is all!

[OrangeJuleas]

As a disclaimer, yes I rebadged my FR-S to Toyota. I like the chrome of the symbol, and how symmetrical it is over the Scion emblem. Also, I did it to be different.

But I can't imagine that it is a bad car because it has a Scion logo on it. Are you people really hung up over the badging? It seems petty.

Who cares if it's a Scion, Toyota, Lexus or even Honda? A Supra is a Supra.

Admire the engineering, not the badge. :happy0180:

Also, these cars really aren't that expensive. If you want to haggle, buy a used one. Do not complain that the company you love produces a car with a $10 part that you hate and then spend hours arguing over what you would pay for it. You don't haggle the price of a Playstation or Xbox. If you feel the price is fair, then it is. If you want to argue about it, again, buy used. You can get much better deals in the used marketplace anyway.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by rcm47

Scion isn't going to get cut anytime soon. Toyota isn't a brand that needs a government bailout to keep them from going bankrupt. Stop comparing it to Saturn or Pontiac. Toyota can hold their own and scion losing a few car sales isn't hurting them.

If you had a limb, an arm or leg that, was very very slowly dying from some sort of disease and there wasn't a real permanent cure that all the doctors believe could save the limb in time, and the only cure to save you from pain was to cut the limb off and prevent more damage, What would you do? Toyota is a rich company only because they don't let money hemorrhage, they already started giving dealers the option to cut the scion brand. They could probably take 5-10 more years of the steady sales drop from scion without having cut some dealer before it even slightly dents their entire company. Yea its not even close to a big deal yet, but if toyota doesn't do something its going to be a useless brand if the trends continue.

[Frstorm]

Gtfan- they realize scion is better with half the amount of dealers. They want to be able to provide every dealer with every color option so there is less trading between dealers.

[SigmaHyperion]

Sigma- if they mod it they can charge hate ee for the mod but besides that they must charge SCION website prices or risk losing their license

Yes, I'm sure that you rather than Scion's own website are correct.

Scion explicitly states "Pure Price" only stipulates that a dealer charges what is on THE DEALER'S site (or ad or other communication). It says nothing at all about what Scion says, what Scion's communications say, what the sticker says, or anything else. Only that whatever the dealer advertises it it will honor. No bait and switch allowed.

A Scion dealer can charge $40,000 for an FRS if they want. Scion's own website states this. Others in this very thread (and others) have said that Scion reps have told them this exactly as well when complaining about markups. I don't mean to be rude, but I'll trust what Scion actually says about what "Pure Price" is over your assertion of how it works.

Originally Posted by Frstorm

Gtfan- they realize scion is better with half the amount of dealers. They want to be able to provide every dealer with every color option so there is less trading between dealers.

The entire reason dealers are trading "so often", is because volumes are so much lower than their dealer network was originally designed for and what was envisaged for Scion to become. Because -- to go back to the original point of the article -- Scion is failing. In an epic way. This has caused the number of vehicles to be spread out thinner than intended, providing each dealer with a smaller number of vehicles and less odds of getting the colors they want, thus increasing the amount of trading.

There are 1,000 Scion dealerships in the US that, together, will sell maybe 80,000 vehicles this year -- on average a whopping 80 cars per dealer per year.

You can't run a dealership on less than 2 sales a week (and law of averages would have many dealerships getting ZERO sales most weeks). Even cutting dealerships in half won't get the numbers where they need to be. Maybe if you're selling high-margin luxury vehicles, but not when you're selling low-margin econoboxes. It doesn't matter that you're a dealership within a dealership. There are still a ton of overhead expenses that you're simply not even coming close to covering at a meager 80 sales per year -- and half the dealers would be a lot less than that, and some a LOT less than that.

It's no wonder no one has the right colors in stock. If they wanted just one of every color for each model, they'd have to have something like 25 cars in inventory. That wouldn't seem to be a lot by anyone's standards, but that's a TON of inventory when you're only selling a car or two a week; and for many dealers that's more than they'll sell in an entire year.

[quasi86]

Is there anyway that we can have one thread discussing "brand strategy" in which the Supra is not brought up! I mean get f#$&king over it.

Its been 15 years since they built this car. Almost just as long since the fast and the furious made it look like a world beater. Forget about it already.

My dad has sold Toyota since '90. You should have seen how him and all the other guys that worked there at the time roll their eyes every time someone brings up this car. Let me put it in an industry term. "water on the lot"

Everyday some gear head would walk in and ask if they had any and when they didn't they would say "if you did I would buy it today" salesman.."well let me take your name and number, when we get one I'll call you" some time later phone rings customer says "uuuuuhhhhh nah man I'm not interested sorry"
When they stopped making the car and were literally down to the last few to ever get made, did everyone rush out to snatch up this historic classic before it was gone forever? No the last one they had sat in the showroom for over a year before someone bought it and they had to discount it almost 10k off the 45k price tag.

Its kinda like a person who died who wasn't all that great of a guy and prolly didn't have many friends all of the sudden becomes the most likeable and kind hearted soul because who's going to say something bad about a dead guy. Therefore they are remembered only has the greatest person that ever lived. Its like the Elvis of cars. Really great and entertaining at its peak but since its death its somehow been elevated to this legend status.

I sell Toyota and Scion myself and every time some douchebag says "its no supra" while looking at the fr-s I just want to flipping hit them and say "yeah good thing cause then it would be three times as much and completely unattainable to 97% of the people on the planet" cause that car was built to compete against Corvette and NSX and Porsche 911 notan entry level sports car "and even if you had the money you still wouldn't buy it cause your a douchebag"

The FR-S is a better car for so many reasons. And it will likely last longer than the Supra everyone holds in such high esteem.

RIP Supra '94 1/2 - '98. The car everyone thinks they remember but it was just Paul Walker and Vin Diesel movie magic and the human flaw to look at the past through rose colored glasses.


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