8 Car Brands Falling Behind.....Scion on the list

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by 4agze

If Scion gets cut no love lost here,

Thing is though, numbers are what matters to a company. And the "sporty" "fun" cars under Scion (tC/FR-S) outsell the old Toyota counterparts (Celica/MR2/Supra) by as much as 4 to 1.

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by Sonolin

I'm sorry, but I would never buy a "Scion" Supra. I don't know if Toyota would introduce the Supra under Scion, at least I'd personally hope not.

So do what everyone else with an image complex does: buy it and put a Toyota badge on it for 10 bucks and call it a day.

[mwjcyber]

Originally Posted by cfusionpm

Marketing is probably the single most powerful tool in trying to sell things, and right now, given the exponential success of the tC and FR-S over old Toyota "sports" and "sporty" cars, it would be marketing genius to put a new MR2 and Supra under Scion.

I concede you've made a good point, and it would be interesting to see Scion grow as a true enthusiast and performance car brand. For your idea to work, Scion would need to refine it's current lineup, add the Supra and MR2 to it, and expand globally.

And although I think your idea could work, it seems Toyota's going in the opposite direction by closing Scion dealerships and not committing to redesigning their current lineup. So only time will tell.

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by mwjcyber

I concede you've made a good point, and it would be interesting to see Scion grow as a true enthusiast and performance car brand. For your idea to work, Scion would need to refine it's current lineup, add the Supra and MR2 to it, and expand globally.

And although I think your idea could work, it seems Toyota's going in the opposite direction by closing Scion dealerships and not committing to redesigning their current lineup. So only time will tell.

I think it would be a shame if they do that. Added complexity for the consumer and way too many models for a single brand to cover. Toyota already has 23 different models including dozen or so sedans and hatches in different trims, two trucks, half a dozen SUVs, and another dozen hybrid special models. Someone who walks into a Toyota dealership isn't looking for something cool or hip or fun or exciting. They need to get from A to B and they want to get there reliably with good gas mileage.

The FR-S is the best thing to ever happen to the Scion brand since the tC, as it further branches away from "quirky" and on to "fun" and "sporty." Now that we have an actual sports car to enjoy (which has been selling rather successfully), they (hopefully) will reevaluate the direction the brand has been taking in the past. I would be very happy to see Supras and MR2s under the Scion brand, because the alternative would likely be what we've had in the past: limited to watching and reading about the Japanese and Euro models because sales numbers were too low to keep them in the states.

[rcm47]

Scion isn't going to get cut anytime soon. Toyota isn't a brand that needs a government bailout to keep them from going bankrupt. Stop comparing it to Saturn or Pontiac. Toyota can hold their own and scion losing a few car sales isn't hurting them.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by Nevermore

Am I the only one that thinks that's unimportant information? The differences between this year and last year is only anywhere between 1 and 5 percent. To call that kind of decrease failing seems a bit premature.

You're not alone. Scion doesn't really exist. It doesn't own any factories. It doesn't build any cars. It's an inexplicable North America specific brand name: as GM and Chrysler used to do only at least in those cases separate companies used to really exist and built brand specific cars in the distant past.

In Canada Scion is already just an in house brand sold through Toyota dealerships. They don't really even get separate showroom space or parts or service. My FRS splash guards for example were sold to me with a Toyota instruction sheet and a Toyota invoice from the Toyota dealership parts department, for my BRZ no less.

It's not like Saturn which was a brand with a factory.

Toyota may well drop the brand but the cars will still be sold as Toyotas if demand exists.

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by Suberman

You're not alone. Scion doesn't really exist. It doesn't own any factories. It doesn't build any cars. It's an inexplicable North America specific brand name: as GM and Chrysler used to do only at least in those cases separate companies used to really exist and built brand specific cars in the distant past.

In Canada Scion is already just an in house brand sold through Toyota dealerships. They don't really even get separate showroom space or parts or service. My FRS splash guards for example were sold to me with a Toyota instruction sheet and a Toyota invoice from the Toyota dealership parts department, for my BRZ no less.

It's not like Saturn which was a brand with a factory.

Toyota may well drop the brand but the cars will still be sold as Toyotas if demand exists.

This. Scion is just a badge and marketing choice, and a particularly successful one when you compare sales numbers between the top fun cars of Scion (tC/FR-S) and Toyota (Celica/MR2/Supra). Sales may be declining, but they're selling at 3-4 times the volume of those Toyota-branded fun cars.

[ric342]

scion is a brand that I take pride in, they striped the car down so that you can mod it the way that you want without giving the dealers the opportunity to bumping the price much. I am proud to own a scion fr-s it symbolizes my individuality

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by ric342

scion is a brand that I take pride in, they striped the car down so that you can mod it the way that you want without giving the dealers the opportunity to bumping the price much. I am proud to own a scion fr-s it symbolizes my individuality

Let's not forget one of the core principles of the Scion brand is reasonable, fixed prices that the dealer can't randomly add markup on. Yes, they can add accessories and try to make you buy them, but there is always the option to order and wait for what you want (which is what I did for my FR-S with NO accessories whatsoever).

But what they CAN'T do is add random arbitrary markups of several thousand dollars that you can argue with all day, but won't come down as long as there's demand for the car. That's something BRZ buyers have had to put up with (and still are?). I hate having to fight for the price of my car. It's awkward, annoying, uncomfortable, time consuming, and in the end, a process that shouldn't even exist. It saves a LOT of headaches having Scion's Pure Pricing structure, and since most of them are relatively bare bones when it comes to luxuries, prices are extremely reasonable.

[regal]

Originally Posted by ric342

scion is a brand that I take pride in, they striped the car down so that you can mod it the way that you want without giving the dealers the opportunity to bumping the price much. I am proud to own a scion fr-s it symbolizes my individuality

Exact reason I bought the Scion over the BRZ, but they have to make money to survive.

[thill]

Originally Posted by cfusionpm

Let's not forget one of the core principles of the Scion brand is reasonable, fixed prices that the dealer can't randomly add markup on. Yes, they can add accessories and try to make you buy them, but there is always the option to order and wait for what you want (which is what I did for my FR-S with NO accessories whatsoever).

But what they CAN'T do is add random arbitrary markups of several thousand dollars that you can argue with all day, but won't come down as long as there's demand for the car. That's something BRZ buyers have had to put up with (and still are?). I hate having to fight for the price of my car. It's awkward, annoying, uncomfortable, time consuming, and in the end, a process that shouldn't even exist. It saves a LOT of headaches having Scion's Pure Pricing structure, and since most of them are relatively bare bones when it comes to luxuries, prices are extremely reasonable.

I actually hate the fixed pricing. I like negotiating with dealers, and if you know how to play the game, can save thousands vs MSRP. Many folks are now able to find the BRZ Limited for close to $26-27K (and there are some that have paid under $26K on a new Limited).

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by thill

I actually hate the fixed pricing. I like negotiating with dealers, and if you know how to play the game, can save thousands vs MSRP. Many folks are now able to find the BRZ Limited for close to $26-27K (and there are some that have paid under $26K on a new Limited).

Some people enjoy it, I don't. I've been jerked around enough to have walked out of dealerships entirely. I hate the process and I hate having to deal with scumbag salesmen. And sometimes when there's only 1 or 2 dealers in 70 mile radius, they know they can hold you by the balls.

[thill]

Originally Posted by cfusionpm

Some people enjoy it, I don't. I've been jerked around enough to have walked out of dealerships entirely. I hate the process and I hate having to deal with scumbag salesmen. And sometimes when there's only 1 or 2 dealers in 70 mile radius, they know they can hold you by the balls.

Very true. I know for many people the dealership experience it stressful and frustrating. I can see where the Pure Price is nice in that situation.

I only negotiate via email now. I send out email to dealers within a 50-100 mile radius and then use their quotes to get the top 2-3 dealers to fight with each other over price. Been doing it this way for years and it is usually pretty painless and almost always gets me the best price.

The trick is to deal directly with the internet sales manager early on. I also wait until the end of the month when they are trying to hit quotas.

[joop1987]

Originally Posted by cfusionpm

Let's not forget one of the core principles of the Scion brand is reasonable, fixed prices that the dealer can't randomly add markup on. Yes, they can add accessories and try to make you buy them, but there is always the option to order and wait for what you want (which is what I did for my FR-S with NO accessories whatsoever).

But what they CAN'T do is add random arbitrary markups of several thousand dollars that you can argue with all day, but won't come down as long as there's demand for the car. That's something BRZ buyers have had to put up with (and still are?). I hate having to fight for the price of my car. It's awkward, annoying, uncomfortable, time consuming, and in the end, a process that shouldn't even exist. It saves a LOT of headaches having Scion's Pure Pricing structure, and since most of them are relatively bare bones when it comes to luxuries, prices are extremely reasonable.

This is not true. Several Scion dealerships had a "Adjusted Market Value" added to the FR-S when it just came out. I contacted Scion and they said "Sorry, we can't do anything". Most dealers add a $500 document fee too.