Sprintex or Vortech, which setup has more potential?

[jamesm]

Saying you don't need an IAT because there is math for that is like saying you don't need a wideband for the same reason. Yes there is math. No, it is not exact. Measuring it is exact.

[phloozy]

That makes no sense, it's not apples to apples. This is like saying, "sure you can tell me 2+2=4 but until I see it in a calculator we really just can't be too sure."

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[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by jamesm

Saying you don't need an IAT because there is math for that is like saying you don't need a wideband for the same reason. Yes there is math. No, it is not exact. Measuring it is exact.

The first FI car I bought was back in 1988. It was a Mazda 626GT turbo. A 2.0L
Turbocharged engine with no IC from the factory. It ran 7 psi of boost in stock form. I added a homemade boost controller by bleeding off air from the waste gate and ran up to 10 psi at times. Still ran fine after 220k miles when I sold it.
Not the same car or CR I know... But here we are talking about a cooler output charge from the SC and the ability to keep combustion temps in check with DI.
Seems quite plausible to me with the proper programming.
Of course this setup will have its limits without an IC, but no reason it can't be reliable.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

The first FI car I bought was back in 1988. It was a Mazda 626GT turbo. A 2.0L
Turbocharged engine with no IC from the factory. It ran 7 psi of boost in stock form. I added a homemade boost controller by bleeding off air from the waste gate and ran up to 10 psi at times. Still ran fine after 220k miles when I sold it.
Not the same car or CR I know... But here we are talking about a cooler output charge from the SC and the ability to keep combustion temps in check with DI.
Seems quite plausible to me with the proper programming.
Of course this setup will have its limits without an IC, but no reason it can't be reliable.

That's exactly the way I see it (having owned a 14psi turbo non-intercooled Regal.). Adding a $200 IAT adapter plate to the Innovate seems like something the tuner should do on one car to develop his base tune.

I just don't "get" Dezoris's vehement dislike of the kit, off course its going to get hot and pull timing spinning its wheels in a dyno garage, that has little in common to road driving.

But then I read a real world pump gas innovate build thread like this http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33537
And the owner sells the innovate in less than a month of ownership. Seems the only folks really happy with the innovate are on E85 or meth.

I think maybe people are expecting too much "dyno" performance from this little blower , my opinion is 190 rwhp (about 250 crank hp) with the torque band improvement is just the medicine this car needs. Going over that and you have to start spending so much money upgrading the rest of the car that you could have bought a cherry Cayman in the first place.


Hopefully the tuners won't give up on the non-intercooled version, fix the tip-in knock and we will all have a reliable $3700 upgrade.

In the mean time a tune plus headers looks to be a substantial enough upgrade to hold people over till the FI kit dusts settles.

[xwd]

I don't think that particular owner would have been happy with either the Innovate or Vortech. Neither has the kick in the pants a turbo does. The Vortech on 93 makes less torque than the Innovate for most of the powerband.

I am just going to wait myself and let others figure it out. Then in 2015 when Subaru puts the new 1.6L turbo engine in the BRZ and it makes 240hp from the factory I will trade mine in.

[jamesm]

190-210whp is 'enough' for an fr-s, unless you prefer that your sports car be able to outrun your wife's minivan light to light.

There are going to be a lot of innovate kits on the used market in a year or so when people get bored with it and don't have anywhere to go but swap the whole thing.

[phloozy]

Same reason people are selling their 86s. If you think it needed that much more power you are probably in the wrong car.

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[jamesm]

Originally Posted by phloozy

Same reason people are selling their 86s. If you think it needed that much more power you are probably in the wrong car.

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Or they could buy a turbo and have the car they wanted to begin with

[Deep Six]

Originally Posted by phloozy

Same reason people are selling their 86s. If you think it needed that much more power you are probably in the wrong car.

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Not at all. I bought the car for the potential that it has. I love the looks and the chassis is phenomenal for this price point. Additional power has been a key part of the formula all along but not the first priority.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

Not at all. I bought the car for the potential that it has. I love the looks and the chassis is phenomenal for this price point. Additional power has been a key part of the formula all along but not the first priority.

250 crank HP is a smart goal for this car, much more than that and it becomes a not so dependable DD, its becomes a weekend warrior that you are constantly fixing/upgrading.

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by regal

250 crank HP is a smart goal for this car, much more than that and it becomes a not so dependable DD, its becomes a weekend warrior that you are constantly fixing/upgrading.

There are plenty of small, lightweight vehicles produced with more power than that, and they're perfectly great daily drivers. The reason = good engineering, not really comparable to what you get from the aftermarket.

[regal]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

There are plenty of small, lightweight vehicles produced with more power than that.

But not rwd

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by regal

But not rwd

I don't see what relevance that has. You stated "constantly fixing/upgrading" would be the effect of a car with excess of 250bhp. It makes no sense to me.

[regal]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

I don't see what relevance that has. You stated "constantly fixing/upgrading" would be the effect of a car with excess of 250bhp. It makes no sense to me.

this car, the tranny is not rated for gobs of torque, the driveshafts, the clutch, cooling, headgaskets. lots need dealt with much over what the innovate delivers.