CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by OICU812

Ok fair enough and understood, example looking for advice on is:

FR-S
1-1.25" drop tops to retain stroke and function

Rear 18x9.5" - 255/35/18 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S
Front 18x8.5" - 225/40/18 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S

Suspension: KWV3 with Vorshlagg front plates and Rear Stance LCA (have read and noted that Vorshlagg plates add a degree of caster.) not sure what stock is and how much the vorshlagg affect goals on front camber etc?

Goal driving: DD/ Street & Spirited /5% autocross

Guess: -2 degrees camber in rear with zero toe
Guess: -.5 degrees camber in front with zero toe


How would that work or any advice based on that setup?

Lastly if it were 18x9.5" and 255/35/18 tires all way around what would you then reccomend given all other data same?

The front camber is very easy to adjust, so align to taste for DD duty. When you get to the AutoX, increase your front camber via the camber plates. Be sure to note your "before" spots. This'll temporarily give you more camber for the AutoX in the front, giving you additional front grip (and preventing excessive outer edge wear). At the end of the day, put the camber plates back to where they were for street duty.

Voila, (almost) the best of both worlds.

[Wepeel]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The front camber is very easy to adjust, so align to taste for DD duty. When you get to the AutoX, increase your front camber via the camber plates. Be sure to note your "before" spots. This'll temporarily give you more camber for the AutoX in the front, giving you additional front grip (and preventing excessive outer edge wear). At the end of the day, put the camber plates back to where they were for street duty.

Voila, (almost) the best of both worlds.

How much does the toe change on this car when you do this? I know on my GR STI, adding 1-1.5 degrees of negative camber via plates would result in drastic toe changes - way more than you'd want (3-4 mm per side).

[OICU812]

Ok I know as stock front is zero camber is that really best for wear even spirited driving steady? Common sense leads me to believe not so and then as DD a guy should consider even half a degree to full degree of negative camber up front agree or no?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Wepeel

How much does the toe change on this car when you do this? I know on my GR STI, adding 1-1.5 degrees of negative camber via plates would result in drastic toe changes - way more than you'd want (3-4 mm per side).

That's a question I can't answer... yet.

Time to pull out the toe plates and tape measures :p

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by OICU812

Ok I know as stock front is zero camber is that really best for wear even spirited driving steady? Common sense leads me to believe not so and then as DD a guy should consider even half a degree to full degree of negative camber up front agree or no?

I'd run at least half a degree negative in the front, even for DD.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by OICU812

Ok I know as stock front is zero camber is that really best for wear even spirited driving steady? Common sense leads me to believe not so and then as DD a guy should consider even half a degree to full degree of negative camber up front agree or no?

Toe (and combination of toe with camber) is the primary cause of excessive tire wear, not camber by itself...

-alex

[Jenson May]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It's the same picture they use... I'd like to see application specific. I've never seen substantiated results from FA.

They've claimed SCCA/NASA wins, but when that win is from being the only car in class and/or from just showing up to the most events, I don't buy it.

This is just not accurate. I am not trying to ruin a great thread you have going here, however I would like to respectfully correct this statement.

Just in the last few months there have been numerous NASA, NARRA and One Lap wins with full fields (not just default wins).

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jenson May

This is just not accurate. I am not trying to ruin a great thread you have going here, however I would like to respectfully correct this statement.

Just in the last few months there have been numerous NASA, NARRA and One Lap wins with full fields (not just default wins).

I'd love to see results on a more grassroots level car without an extreme level of prep...

Congrats on landing the defending LSB Limited AWD team

[StormTrooper]

So 0 toe all around with more negative camber up front than rear is the general idea?

My thoughts would be that -1.5 neg front and -1.0/-.5 neg rear zero Toe all around with rce yellows spc camber bolts and rear LCA or bushings to adjust rear camber.

225/45 17 sport maxx rt 17x7.5 et44 wheels

Spirited plus autoX

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Wepeel

Agree to disagree.

I do not agree to disagree! It's not a question of differing opinions, one of us must be wrong! Either offset/scrub radius affects leverage/motion ratios or it does not.

So thanks for making me actually *think* about it a bit
Yer right, changing lateral location of the wheel/tire only increases the lateral loads in the LCA and at the top of the strut, but the leverage/motion ratio between spring and tire is not affected.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I do not agree to disagree! It's not a question of differing opinions, one of us must be wrong! Either offset/scrub radius affects leverage/motion ratios or it does not.

So thanks for making me actually *think* about it a bit
Yer right, changing lateral location of the wheel/tire only increases the lateral loads in the LCA and at the top of the strut, but the leverage/motion ratio between spring and tire is not affected.

Decreased offset/increased scrub radius DOES increase leverage.



There can only be one!

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Decreased offset/increased scrub radius DOES increase leverage.



There can only be one!

I've been using this:

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I've been using this:

I need that book.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by solidONE

I need that book.

'Competition Car Suspension' by Allan Staniforth.

Target audience seems to be British hill climb racers who build their own open wheel cars.

Because England???