Pentosin MT and Redline UOA After Track Supercharged

[roddy]

Dezoris... Thanks for posting this and the video. I am at pretty much the same mileage on the Pentosin (just over 13,000 miles). It still FEELS great, but after seeing the first bit of fluid from your drain looking kind of grey, I'm curious what mine will look like. I'll be changing the fluid soon, but won't likely send a sample in. I will note how it looks/smells though. I have enough fluid here for a change with either MT-90, MTL, or another round of Pentosin.
On a sidenote, the Redline 0W20 looks worthy.

448hpsti...I ended up leaving the MTF2 in the Mustang and it has never shifted better.

[roddy]

Ok, curiosity got the better of me and I drained my trans fluid yesterday. The car sat without running for about 14 hours before I drained it, so anything metal should have had time to settle to the bottom. There was a (very) little bit of grey as I first pulled the plug, but the rest of the fluid was a nice amber color, and did not smell burnt. I did the magnet test and picked up nothing, so there could be some aluminum or synchro material there. Also, the magnet on the drain plug had less material on it than when I put the Pentosin in 13,000 miles and 10 months ago. It should be noted that my car is a daily driver, and although id does see some spirited backroad driving, it has not had any track time.

As stated above, I have MT-90, MTL, and Pentosin on hand. I tried MT-90 last year, and it felt better than stock until ambient temps dropped below 50F or so. MTL (70W80) is even thinner than Pentosin, and although others have reported good results, I hesitate to try it full strength. What I did was use 1 qt of MTL and the rest (~1.3qt) of MT-90. I'll see how this feels and report back. If I don't like it, I have 3 litres of Pentosin on the shelf, and no worries about using it again. In all honesty, what I saw come out of my transmission actually looked pretty good for almost a years worth of driving. I wonder how many people realize that the manual actually calls for a trans and diff fluid change every 20K miles...

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by roddy

Ok, curiosity got the better of me and I drained my trans fluid yesterday. The car sat without running for about 14 hours before I drained it, so anything metal should have had time to settle to the bottom. There was a (very) little bit of grey as I first pulled the plug, but the rest of the fluid was a nice amber color, and did not smell burnt. I did the magnet test and picked up nothing, so there could be some aluminum or synchro material there. Also, the magnet on the drain plug had less material on it than when I put the Pentosin in 13,000 miles and 10 months ago. It should be noted that my car is a daily driver, and although id does see some spirited backroad driving, it has not had any track time.

As stated above, I have MT-90, MTL, and Pentosin on hand. I tried MT-90 last year, and it felt better than stock until ambient temps dropped below 50F or so. MTL (70W80) is even thinner than Pentosin, and although others have reported good results, I hesitate to try it full strength. What I did was use 1 qt of MTL and the rest (~1.3qt) of MT-90. I'll see how this feels and report back. If I don't like it, I have 3 litres of Pentosin on the shelf, and no worries about using it again. In all honesty, what I saw come out of my transmission actually looked pretty good for almost a years worth of driving. I wonder how many people realize that the manual actually calls for a trans and diff fluid change every 20K miles...

Thanks a bunch for posting up this info. Is the service interval really 20k?

[FRSRAVEN]

I thought it was 30k on the trans and differ, or every two years?

Amsoil MTF in mine. A little bit thicker then the Pentosin most of you use (9.7cSt vs 7cSt), but still thin enough to improve cold weather performance. I live in central Texas, so I wanted something that would also cope with heat a tiny bit more. On 105+ degree days, I've noticed no loss in shift quality. It shifts better then factory fluid in every scenario I've encountered.

I'd imagine with a 40 minute track session, your transmission fluid was very hot. Perhaps a thicker fluid is called for in that situation?

[zooki]

Just got through changing out all the fluids in mine. I have had Pentosin MTF2 in for about 25K miles. Just a DD, no track time.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/album...pictureid=6020
As you can see from the middle picture the fluid came out very dark.
Also found this stuck to the drain plug.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/album...pictureid=6019
The rear end fluid looked good though. You can see it in the bottom picture. I had Redline 75W90NS in for the same 25K miles, and it looked brand new coming out. I'm sending the Pentosin to Blackstone just to see what they say about it. And I would agree that 20K is probably the best service interval on the transmission fluid. It feels so much better with the new fluid in it.

[roddy]

My maintenance and service guide (Canadian Model) says to change both the trans and rear diff fluids at 32,000 km (20K mile) intervals.
I took the car for a 50 mile spin (country and in town driving) and it feels good with the Redline blend in there. No 2nd gear crunch like I got with the straight MT-90, or 3rd gear catch (not quite a grind) like I got with the lighter blend I tried last year (MTL and Honda MTF).
I am also using Redline in the diff, though I went with the lighter 75W85.

[roddy]

Originally Posted by zooki

Just got through changing out all the fluids in mine. I have had Pentosin MTF2 in for about 25K miles. Just a DD, no track time.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/album...pictureid=6020
As you can see from the middle picture the fluid came out very dark.
Also found this stuck to the drain plug.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/album...pictureid=6019
The rear end fluid looked good though. You can see it in the bottom picture. I had Redline 75W90NS in for the same 25K miles, and it looked brand new coming out. I'm sending the Pentosin to Blackstone just to see what they say about it. And I would agree that 20K is probably the best service interval on the transmission fluid. It feels so much better with the new fluid in it.

Yikes..my trans fluid was not even close to that dark. You did almost double my mileage though. I wouldn't worry too much over the metal on your drain plug...that was 25K miles worth of driving (and probably a couple of good grinds somewhere along the way). There is a picture here somewhere of what looks like a detent ball or part of a bearing stuck to a drain plug magnet...that I might be concerned about. All I had stuck to mine was enough material to make a black spot on a rag.

[FRSRAVEN]

Originally Posted by zooki

Just got through changing out all the fluids in mine. I have had Pentosin MTF2 in for about 25K miles. Just a DD, no track time.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/album...pictureid=6020
As you can see from the middle picture the fluid came out very dark.
Also found this stuck to the drain plug.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/album...pictureid=6019
The rear end fluid looked good though. You can see it in the bottom picture. I had Redline 75W90NS in for the same 25K miles, and it looked brand new coming out. I'm sending the Pentosin to Blackstone just to see what they say about it. And I would agree that 20K is probably the best service interval on the transmission fluid. It feels so much better with the new fluid in it.

When I changed my factory fluid at 2k miles, it had more shavings then that on the drain plug. Nothing to worry about.

[504]

Just because oil is dark doesn't necessarily mean it's bad, in some cases its actually a good thing because you know the oil is doing one of its primary functions of keeping particulates in suspension instead of building up in the transmission to keep it clean. I'm really not sure how you can burn oil in a transmission where temperatures barely reach 100c, maybe it's the smell of factory fill additives still in your transmission

[zooki]

Oh, I'm not saying its bad. I agree with you as far as it being dark because of suspended particles. I think that its pretty close to its "saturation point"(for lack of a better phrase) I agree also that you shouldn't let transmission fluid go much longer that 20-25K. This was Pentosin MTF2 I drained out, I had replaced the factory fluid at 6K miles.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by zooki

I had replaced the factory fluid at 6K miles.

When you pulled the fluids out (trans/diff) at 6k, what did they look like then?

[Ninjin]

Here's my transmission oil analysis from about a month ago. They didn't have averages set up yet apparently (I told them the specifics of the transmission, but they show averages from "Transmission Toyota, Manual").

For reference, I had asked about potential synchro problems with a GL-5 and they gave the standard "follow the owner's manual" recommendation.

[zooki]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

When you pulled the fluids out (trans/diff) at 6k, what did they look like then?

From what I remember, the transmission fluid was dark. Like this, and the differential fluid was dark also. The rear end had a lot of gunk on the magnetic drain plug also.

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by FRSRAVEN

I'd imagine with a 40 minute track session, your transmission fluid was very hot. Perhaps a thicker fluid is called for in that situation?

This is what I'm thinking as well.

Sure one uoa doesn't tell you much, and the gray color could be from the extreme pressure additives. But the Motul Gear 300 that some people are using is twice as thick as the Pentosin at 100C and might be better suited for the track.

Post the transmission uoa in the bitog gear oil analysis forum for some possible feedback from a gear oil blender (Molakule).
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=47&page=1

The Red Line uoa is amazing! 5k+ miles easy, IMO. Your break-in method probably worked well! IIRC, Red Line uses silicon as an oil additive, but they would verify this for you or you can look for a uoa on-line. Nice ZDDP! Are you catless?

-Dennis