Pentosin MT and Redline UOA After Track Supercharged

[Dezoris]

After running at the track for 2 hours we had about 3000 miles on the Redline 0w20 engine oil. This 3000 miles included an 8 hour road trip and 8 runs at Autox including hard testing.

Our Radium catch cans were working here as well catching blow by and unburned fuel from the track.

No wear materials and our Redline TBN was looking extremely well. It seems this motor is happy and reliable with the Vortech Kit and Perrin Tune.



ENGINE OIL





The transmission on the other hand is a caution area. After the track day the shifting was noticeably different. Gear changes felt smooth, no binding or hesitation but going into 3rd and 4th were definitely slicker. It’s possible we just finally got the co-webs off or just wore the fluid down. The oil looks grey as it poured out, the fresh fluid was a near amber color. Based on the Blackstone report they said it could be from the case, or bearing wear. They don’t have enough data from these transmissions to know. But suggested we send another sample to monitor the aluminum levels.




TRANS FLUID






It would be excellent if someone else could send some Trans oil samples out to see if you guys are seeing heavier aluminum.

[Dezoris]

FYI factory Engine break in methods were not followed. The car was slowly wound up through 3-4th gear 50% throttle first time in car and revs were all over the place for first 300 miles then driven normally after. At 1000 miles oil was changed to redline 0w20.

[RallySport Direct]

Thanks for the info, I would be interested to see if someone else sends in their trans fluid to be tested.

Thanks again!
Rick

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

At 1000 miles oil was changed to redline 0w20.

Ignoring engine oil here... On the MT oil, Maye the Pentosin needs extra scrutiny.

It might be a terrific product but is there a chance it's too thin for your performance applications (extra power and track duty)? Maybe too thin is the wrong descriptor... Too "viscous" or too slippery perhaps? This may affect the shifting feel change but maybe it's the aluminum.... You may want to try a different fluid like an Amsoil or a Pennzoil Synchromesh.

The aluminum content in the oil is highly doubtful to me to be bearings only because the bearings are not aluminum. Whenever I get grey-ish oil out of my trans I run a magnet through it... nothing on the magnet, then it's aluminum and in my world... aluminum in the trans fluid is from shift forks.

These are the shift forks I'm talking about below (image is from S2k trans). I don't know if the forks in the 86 trans are steel or aluminum, usually they are aluminum and usually the primary reason for aluminum to show up in the oil. The wear on the tabs (where they actually make contact with the collar) increases exponentially during hard shifts where that fork is asked to move that collar very quickly. Also that collar is always spinning so if, as a driver, you like to rest your hand on the shift lever, then you're also asking the shift fork to be riding against the collar unnecessarily. (don't do that folks).

Green Arrows point to shift forks in question.


Now all of this is a moot point if those forks moving the collar are steel. Then I cannot account for the source of aluminum in the oil unless it's coming from the case, in which I cannot explain that either.

Seriously... what good am I?

[448hpsti]

I'll send mine in, my car has nothing but redline, track and DYNO time, it's piss beaten constantly, and I run the pentosin products in Porsches Audi m3 and both brz, the daily driver has 30,000 miles on it and we bought it the fist day of this year, so both our brz are subject to some driving extremes and yes, I will gladly have my oil uoa to share soon.

[Dezoris]

1 of the few problems I have with the transmissionis its ability to return center. Pulling to neutral can bind d almost like getting caught you could feel it almost hesitating or grinding. That would match up to the shift collar theory. Rice I have that same s2000 tear down pic saved from the syncro issue days wher they were pointing out main shaft etc.

Now in terms of heat the Pentosin nearly eliminated cold weather hesitation. Heat feels smooth. But I am not in super hot climate. Could the heat be bad for the fluid? Unknown. Could I have issues with my shift forks? Maybe. Looking forward to other trans analysis.

[448hpsti]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

1 of the few problems I have with the transmissionis its ability to return center. Pulling to neutral can bind d almost like getting caught you could feel it almost hesitating or grinding. That would match up to the shift collar theory. Rice I have that same s2000 tear down pic saved from the syncro issue days wher they were pointing out main shaft etc.

Now in terms of heat the Pentosin nearly eliminated cold weather hesitation. Heat feels smooth. But I am not in super hot climate. Could the heat be bad for the fluid? Unknown. Could I have issues with my shift forks? Maybe. Looking forward to other trans analysis.

Have you tried a aftermarket rear shift bush? $30 and ten minutes well spent if you haven't

Pentosin maybe new on Japanese car forums, but its factory fill for many euro brands actually, fwiw

I'm living proof of the pentosin in hot track situations on several of my cars , 86 inclusive, but am open to seeing what wear patterns we find, concerned about alumin but

Pentosin in the Asin for our car was my brain fart, so I am tuned in here...

Heck I uses it in my land rover and that says a lot too, their ATF is amazing too, gotta say that truck has it ruff, Moab is where that gets put thru its paces

[504]

Its impossible to come to any conclusions from one transmission UOA that has been in the car since pretty much brand new. Super curious on further pentosin analysis' from the same car as well as how other thicker oils perform with similar mileage.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by 448hpsti

Have you tried a aftermarket rear shift bush? $30 and ten minutes well spent if you haven't

Pentosin maybe new on Japanese car forums, but its factory fill for many euro brands actually, fwiw

I'm living proof of the pentosin in hot track situations on several of my cars , 86 inclusive, but am open to seeing what wear patterns we find, concerned about alumin but

Pentosin in the Asin for our car was my brain fart, so I am tuned in here...

Heck I uses it in my land rover and that says a lot too, their ATF is amazing too, gotta say that truck has it ruff, Moab is where that gets put thru its paces

I plan on doing the cradle style whiteline. And the rear subframe. I need to be super careful about doing too much poly on a street car. There are plenty of reasons for rubber and some slop is better than zero compliance and shock.

Which bushing are you referring to can you link me? I was thinking the U shaped one.

Originally Posted by 504

Its impossible to come to any conclusions from one transmission UOA that has been in the car since pretty much brand new. Super curious on further pentosin analysis' from the same car as well as how other thicker oils perform with similar mileage.

I agree its about providing info no one has. Just a call for others to send out for analysis. And namely to see the the analysis from the guy who recommended it to start.

[448hpsti]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

I plan on doing the cradle style whiteline. And the rear subframe. I need to be super careful about doing too much poly on a street car. There are plenty of reasons for rubber and some slop is better than zero compliance and shock.

Which bushing are you referring to can you link me? I was thinking the U shaped one.



I agree its about providing info no one has. Just a call for others to send out for analysis. And namely to see the the analysis from the guy who recommended it to start.

I know exactkly what you mean by too much poly but trust me:
the cradle style whiteline is a tranny mount stiffener, it wont tighten up the shifter as much as the rear shift lever bush
I run both, suggest you do as well.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19767

I prefer it over the T bolt style stiffener, that added NVH in my case-avoid that if youre NVH sensitive, as I am, I dont get the craze to make it all solid mounts and poly EVERYTHING!

... whereas the two parts I am recommending, to enhance your already nice build, wont add NVH

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by 448hpsti

I know exactkly what you mean by too much poly but trust me:
the cradle style whiteline is a tranny mount stiffener, it wont tighten up the shifter as much as the rear shift lever bush
I run both, suggest you do as well.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19767

I prefer it over the T bolt style stiffener, that added NVH in my case-avoid that if youre NVH sensitive, as I am, I dont get the craze to make it all solid mounts and poly EVERYTHING!

... whereas the two parts I am recommending, to enhance your already nice build, wont add NVH

Thanks, been holding off on this for a while.
Will order them on tuesday. Need to get new exhaust gaskets from Perrin if I have to drop exhaust.

[Hawaiian]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

I agree its about providing info no one has. Just a call for others to send out for analysis. And namely to see the the analysis from the guy who recommended it to start.

I'm coming up on 32k miles. That will put me at 30k miles of amsoil in my trans. It's time for a swap. I'll see if i can get it sent in.

[Hawaiian]

Originally Posted by 448hpsti

I know exactkly what you mean by too much poly but trust me:
the cradle style whiteline is a tranny mount stiffener, it wont tighten up the shifter as much as the rear shift lever bush
I run both, suggest you do as well.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19767

I prefer it over the T bolt style stiffener, that added NVH in my case-avoid that if youre NVH sensitive, as I am, I dont get the craze to make it all solid mounts and poly EVERYTHING!

... whereas the two parts I am recommending, to enhance your already nice build, wont add NVH

I love the Diff cradle and recommend it to everyone. It adds a slight "Clunk" on shifting, but makes the car feel like it's putting more power down.

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Thanks, been holding off on this for a while.
Will order them on tuesday. Need to get new exhaust gaskets from Perrin if I have to drop exhaust.

I have a spare 2 bolt vibrant flange gasket. I am Pretty sure P&L has a few in stock as well.

http://compare.ebay.com/like/321196436665?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var= sbar

This guy.

[zooki]

I'm changing out the Pentosin I've had in for around 25K miles. My car is just a DD though, no really hard driving put on it. I'll get it analyzed also. Just to add to the database, I guess.