Are you faster with traction control on or off?

[juliog]

My own experience with the FR-S (can't speak for other cars):

- If you're a beginner, TC ON will make you faster on the track/autox. Poor throttle inputs during cornering with TC OFF + prius tires = spin out (I know!).

- After one or two track days or autox's, VSC ON may be faster (YMMV). You're better at modulating throttle input but still make rather big mistakes once in a while. Having VSC ON increases the slip angle threshold before the computer kicks in, so now you can corner faster.

- As you gain seat time and start going faster and faster, TC becomes too intrusive, literally slowing you down. So at this point you turn it off.


I think if you have to ask, then leave the aids on. When it's time to turn them off, you'll know.


On the street I leave everything on, save for one or two canyons that I know very well and trigger the TC even at moderate speeds.

[dem00n]

Originally Posted by Luis_GT

Don't crash... simple...

Yeah and don't go to the bathroom either, save more time.



These tough guys driving with TC off will eventually get a bite in the ass, not all but there will be a number. You can simply be driving in the rain, take a corner too fast and where TC could of saved your ass, your dropping the clutch and ending up around a tree somewhere. It's a safety feature and unless your going to be going to be driving 10/10's on the street which i doubt you ever will be, just leave it on.


I remember watching a review of an Enzo, the driver said you can turn TC off for those too stupid or too brave.


On the track? Sure take it off, but i don't want dumbasses taking off an extra safety feature because they think they are Senna re born and crash into my car. I'm glad they are making TC more difficult to turn off in modern day cars.

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by dem00n

Yeah and don't go to the bathroom either, save more time.



These tough guys driving with TC off will eventually get a bite in the ass, not all but there will be a number. You can simply be driving in the rain, take a corner too fast and where TC could of saved your ass, your dropping the clutch and ending up around a tree somewhere. It's a safety feature and unless your going to be going to be driving 10/10's on the street which i doubt you ever will be, just leave it on.


I remember watching a review of an Enzo, the driver said you can turn TC off for those too stupid or too brave.

Not being a tough guy, but when half the year you get caught in rain storms in crappy tires and no TC, you learn to drive because you learn to drive.

[dem00n]

Originally Posted by Luis_GT

Not being a tough guy, but when half the year you get caught in rain storms in crappy tires and no TC, you learn to drive because you learn to drive.

I'm not talking about "driving" i'm talking about stupidity. Most of these people turning off TC have never driven cars without TC, they don't know about pre-OBD. But when theres an extra safety function on a car, why not let it be? I doubt TC on or off is going to make the difference on the way to work or school.

[acro]

Originally Posted by dem00n

Yeah and don't go to the bathroom either, save more time.



These tough guys driving with TC off will eventually get a bite in the ass, not all but there will be a number. You can simply be driving in the rain, take a corner too fast and where TC could of saved your ass, your dropping the clutch and ending up around a tree somewhere. It's a safety feature and unless your going to be going to be driving 10/10's on the street which i doubt you ever will be, just leave it on.


I remember watching a review of an Enzo, the driver said you can turn TC off for those too stupid or too brave.


On the track? Sure take it off, but i don't want dumbasses taking off an extra safety feature because they think they are Senna re born and crash into my car. I'm glad they are making TC more difficult to turn off in modern day cars.

Not tough guys remember not everyone had a RWD vehicle with traction control. Some of us like myself did not. We learnt to be smooth with our inputs controlled with our right foot and we used our common sense and no i didn't crash my car despite driving in all sorts of weather and conditions for many years.

Having said that its obvious the safest place to learn the limits of the car is on the track. You will then realise how much the TC doesnt allow you to get the maximum from the car and to see how much fun this car is.

[acro]

The best safety feature in your car is your brain. Be smart don't take stupid chances even in the dry and obviously not in the wet.

[bestwheelbase]

Off. Because I learned to drive without these systems and when they intercede it disrupts my flow. I recognize how good they are, I just prefer to use my own brain rather than relying on a computer brain to make decisions for me.

Most of the time I drive in such a way that the systems would never be needed anyway.

They are good at what they do, but they do not always understand the context of a situation. Simple example: what if I need to enter a roadway briskly with a little wheelspin? The system can get in the way. No thanks.

[dem00n]

Originally Posted by acro

Not tough guys remember not everyone had a RWD vehicle with traction control. Some of us like myself did not. We learnt to be smooth with our inputs controlled with our right foot and we used our common sense and no i didn't crash my car despite driving in all sorts of weather and conditions for many years.

Having said that its obvious the safest place to learn the limits of the car is on the track. You will then realise how much the TC doesnt allow you to get the maximum from the car and to see how much fun this car is.

But why do you need to get the maximum from the car if you're driving on the streets? Whats the point? You might as well have that extra safety barrier on just in case, i understand a lot of you guys learn how to drive fast on cars with no traction control or ABS but mistakes are always made. I'm talking to those who commute with this car and turn TC off, i know there's a number of you who do it.

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by dem00n

I'm not talking about "driving" i'm talking about stupidity. Most of these people turning off TC have never driven cars without TC, they don't know about pre-OBD. But when theres an extra safety function on a car, why not let it be? I doubt TC on or off is going to make the difference on the way to work or school.

See, I learned to drive in a car that had a throttle cable! So it didn't have TC... after that I moved to a 300HP mustang which I disabled TC (TC won't help you when understeering anyways, and mustangs don't handle... or brake)

Next is my E39, which has a faulty ABS sensor (and the bastard always fails when it starts raining) so I learned to drive without ABS or TC in wet roads... add to that cheap coilovers with about 1 or 2 degrees of rear camber after lowering, and cheap toyo proxes 4 and you have a slip and slide car... even with an open diff... SOOO much fun... (Far more tail happy than the FR-S, I've yet to get the rear end loose on mine, where a 3 inch thick line of water in a turn would cause the rear of the E39 to slide even at 20MPH)

[acro]

Originally Posted by dem00n

But why do you need to get the maximum from the car if you're driving on the streets? Whats the point? You might as well have that extra safety barrier on just in case, i understand a lot of you guys learn how to drive fast on cars with no traction control or ABS but mistakes are always made. I'm talking to those who commute with this car and turn TC off, i know there's a number of you who do it.

I said if you are learning take it to a track and turn TC off and there you will get the maximum from the car. Read what i said again.

Having said that turning of TC isnt about going fast. But i can tell you the car does feel different as it should.

But please remember this what will save you in the long run is your BRAIN. Most accidents are caused by stupidity

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by dem00n

But why do you need to get the maximum from the car if you're driving on the streets? Whats the point? You might as well have that extra safety barrier on just in case, i understand a lot of you guys learn how to drive fast on cars with no traction control or ABS but mistakes are always made. I'm talking to those who commute with this car and turn TC off, i know there's a number of you who do it.

Driving with TC off doesn't mean you're pushing the car to the limit... most of the time I shift below 4000 RPM's, unless I feel like revving it out just to hear the engine, but I still drive with TC off.

[campy]

I keep my traction control off to shave tenths off my mcdonalds drive thru times

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by BANGER

In the event of an accident, can the ECU log if traction control was on or not?
Food for thought if it does.

Most likely yes, but it only records 30 sec data-logs as was said in other posts, so it gets overwritten every 30 seconds. Stuff like whether or not the brake and gas pedal were pressed at the same time or the g force on the car. As for traction control and other stuff I'm not sure, I don't even think it would be able to record steering inputs (too much data maybe?). It supposed to help find the cause of the accident. As for the ecu it record some of the similar things including if the car has bounced off the rev limiter and what not. I think someone else can elaborate better on this subject because this stuff is quite complicated and there is alot of controversy around the black box and ecu datalog stuff.

[bestwheelbase]

Two things:
1) learning the limits doesn't mean using them everyday. It means learning how the car handles so you can drive safely under or around those moments on the street. At least, that has been my approach.
2) Lots of so-called accidents are not accidental, they are wrecks. Caused by discernible choices in risk assessment and situational awareness.

(Bringing it back to electronic stability systems) These are exactly the factors which the ECU cannot interpret, so it's still the responsibility of the driver to be smart and safe.

Safety gear is a good backup for safe behavior, not a replacement for being fully aware of what you are doing and what may result.

Mountain climbers don't just clip onto a rope and start ascending a cliff. They know exactly what hand and foot positions to use, what to prepare for, what to do if they slip. They know they have safety gear just in case, but they never want to use it. With cars I do not see why it should be a any different. It should be the last resort, not the first thing that makes someone feel comfortable seeing how far they can push their car.